S03E07 Valentina: Hyperemesis, Sibling Bonds, Induction, Home Birth Transfer, Breast Feeding, Tandem Feeding and Knowing Your Rights.

Valentina's resources are below this description

Born on a tiny river boat in Colombia during a tropical storm, Valentina grows up across continents and later lands in Switzerland working in maternal health and gender equity. Then pregnancy hits and theory becomes real. Hyperemesis gravidarum leaves her sick for months, and she learns how quickly a system can turn “protocol” into pressure when a mother is exhausted and vulnerable.

We talk through what informed consent actually sounds like when your waters break, time starts ticking, and someone pushes oxytocin or an early induction at Triemli Stadtspital Zurich. Valentina shares how she asks for the least invasive option, gets second and third opinions, and holds her ground even when it makes the room uncomfortable. She also opens up about postpartum anxiety and that disorienting early feeling of “is this my baby?” plus the relief of finally getting clear mental health guidance instead of vague reassurance.

Then the breastfeeding story deepens. Persistent pain gets brushed off again and again until she finds La Leche League support and starts connecting the dots to oral restrictions, including posterior tongue tie and lip tie. From there, we follow her through breastfeeding after breast implant complications and surgery, a second pregnancy with better care, a planned home birth that transfers to hospital, and the surprisingly complex beauty of tandem feeding and child-led weaning.

If you care about birth stories in Switzerland, doula support, breastfeeding help, tongue tie assessment, and maternal rights, this conversation will stay with you. Subscribe, share this with a parent who needs it, and leave a review so more families can find the support they deserve.

Valentina's Resources: 

Aline Schneckenburger who was also my therapist (perinatal psychologist) for all these years 

Ximena Silva who is also known as the birth fairy for the Spanish speaking mamas. Her company is called Nacer - 

midwife for the home birth 

Christine Faessler 

Postpartum Hebammes and former colleagues 

Haerzklopfä Hebamme

Surgeon who performed the implant explant and removed my implants during my first lactation journey: 

Dr. med. Alessia Lardi

Valentina's information and contact:

1) VSV Perinatal Health & Equity Consulting - services as a gender and health policy analyst and as an IBCLC 

2) Barbells & Plates | perinatal strength training for pregnancy and postnatal recovery -

3) LinkedIn - 

IG: valsvelandia

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Overview

Julia 0:08

Hi, and welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, doula, hypnobirthing specialist and perinatal educator.

Christine 0:17

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. Today we're talking to Valentina, a mother whose journey through pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding has shaped her into a strong advocate for perinatal support. In this episode, she starts by describing her own powerful birth on a boat in the middle of a tropical storm, how her path led her to become a mother herself, and opens up about the challenges she faced, from severe hyperemesis gravidarum to navigating an induction on her own terms and the early breastfeeding pain that went unrecognized until she finally found the right support. We also dive into her powerful story of breastfeeding through surgeries and pregnancies, her two different birth stories, and the unique dynamics of tandem feeding to children. Valentina speaks honestly about boundaries, transitions, and the emotional complexity of weaning. And she ends with a beautiful reflection on witnessing her daughter choose completely on her own when it was time to stop breastfeeding. This conversation is full of wisdom, courage, and deep compassion for mothers. Let's get into it.

Julia 1:30

Hi, Valentina. Welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. We're so, so, so happy to have you here to get us started. Could you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you and your family?

Born On A Boat In A Storm

Valentina 1:44

Yes, of course. And thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited since birth is the topic that is at the super bottom of my heart and basically everywhere around my heart. And uh yeah, my name is Valentina Velandia and I am from Colombia. I come from Colombia regionally. I was born in an indigenous tribe. My dad is indigenous, and my mom was a linguist doing research to try to preserve native languages in different parts of red conflict zones at the time, which was Colombia was a war zone for more than 50 years. And she wanted to make sure that different communities and First Nations were not forgotten. So then I was born in the midst of the storm, actually, a super heavy tropical storm, as they were coming back from the city on a tiny boat and in the middle of a massive river. Um my dad, that was only the driver, my brother, my dad, who thankfully is a kinesologist, so he knew how to kind of get babies, or he knew how to how the body works. And um, everything very improvised. I came a little bit earlier than expected, and the movement and everything, it was a really fast birth. And um, yeah, I was born there, and I thought it was an interesting way to start describing my context of birth since um since then it was a really wild one. And my mom always says, like, ever since you came out, you came out to kind of eat the world, and you did you do not wait for anything. So that was kind of the I with I cannot talk about my births eventually without speaking about my own birth. And then she went through um her midwife. She they were able to get to the little town um where they were going to, where they lived. Um, and then the midwife did like a full ceremony and was able to cover everything to check me. My mom just had me obviously under skin to skin under her everything, but they couldn't hear or see if I was alive, if I was well. Um, thankfully, obviously, the umbilical cordon was still on, like there, so then everything was fine. But um, but yeah, it was it was a little bit of a wild birth into the world. And then we lived there for a couple of years. Um, they were there for 12 years, but I was there for only the first couple of years of my life. Then we moved into the city, and then I moved to to the US with my family with my mom. And uh from there to Singapore, and then Singapore they got try they transferred me to Geneva, and that what that's what brought me to Switzerland through work. Um and um I've always worked in women's rights, especially I'm a gender originally a gender policy analyst. So I I looked at maternal equity and health from the policy perspective, and I thought it was fascinating, very interesting. And once I gave birth to my first child, it was a revolution in my mind, and I realized how many gaps there are between policy and practice. So then I decided to take the clinical route and um become a breastfeeding consultant. I will tell you later what was the reason for it. Practically a very, very difficult um start of a feeding journey, and so that that brought me into the into the physical clinical part of things when it comes to maternal equity and infant feeding.

Christine 5:32

Wow, I I love that start. And and you were born on the boat.

Valentina 5:40

It's not a boat, it was uh like a rice, like a rice carrier, so it was like a canoeish kind of thing. It was not even like it had a tiny mutter, and she was practically like thankfully, like like kneeling on on a wooden bench. So it was like, and they couldn't hear like they couldn't hear anything. My dad was trying to hold my brother because it was so it was so crazy, like it was a tropical storm, right, in the middle of the equator. So then he's like holding on to my brother so that he wouldn't fall, and then trying to get me and my mom, like oh, it was it's a wild story.

Julia 6:18

I mean, a story like that has to impact the person that you become in in some kind of way that is um enormous. And also as your mother, like was your birth experience very different from I mean, obviously it was very different, but in terms of like the speed, the intensity, how it started, was it very different from your brother's birth?

Valentina 6:39

Yes, definitely. Um, so it was a different context. When my brother was born, she was in the city. Um she describes it as still a very peaceful birth. I mean, it she was very intense, but but and much longer than mine. But for a first birth, I think it was a relatively quick birth. So it is um overnight. And then, in fact, my dad was working, so she she was alone, and she's like, okay, she worked a lot at home. Um, then she called my my grandma, and no, I don't remember if it was my grandma. I don't remember the details of the story. I know that she ended up going to the hospital where she was gonna give birth, and there they were like, Oh, yeah, you're good, like you can keep working. And she was she feels like she was alone for the majority of it until she's like, Oh, baby's coming. And then they were like, No, you still have time, relax, don't worry now. She's like, nope, I need to push, and they were like, No, no, no, really, really. You just need to relax, and maybe you need to go to the bathroom. And she says, No, no, no. And he came also in a way relatively quickly. So then my my the second birth, so my birth, when she gave birth to me, it was just like so fast, so intense. She didn't even like she says she doesn't remember, like she only remembers like having like very intense contractions with my birth for like very little time. Like it was, I don't know, she says it was less than an hour between the time that she remembers like starting like feeling the contractions until I was born. Yeah.

Julia 8:17

What an incredible story.

Valentina 8:19

So and you're uh about how I know, yes, it was about her two births, right? Yeah, tell you about her birth, which I think it's interesting, is that when she gave birth to my brother, she was much younger, she was only like 19 or 20 years old, and she was she says that she was very like uninformed about it, but somehow very confident on her body and the ability to birth. But she was not like reading much or anything, just asking around, but like not very worried about birth itself.

Julia 8:53

Um she was so she was 19 and interest and and her mission was to preserve linguistic culture in indigenous populations in her country.

Valentina 9:02

That was with my brother, so with my brother, okay. And then she went to university, practically having my brother throughout university bringing him to lectures and everything, and the teachers were pretty okay with it. Um, and then I mean, and then they she was going back and forth to the jungle basically. Um, I I have a big gap with my brother. Um so then they they moved to the jungle basically, or to the east side of the country. It's actually closer to Venezuela, Brazil. Um and then there, after she finished her studies, she wanted to obviously do field work and to be able to apply her what she was studying and into the places that nobody wanted to go, really.

Julia 9:56

That is incredible. She sounds like an utterly fascinating woman.

Valentina 10:01

That is so cool. What I was saying is the age gap, like the age gap and the fact that she had meet so much later, um, then I think it made a big difference for her on also like how she was, I guess, much more prepared for me than it was for my brother.

Choosing Parenthood And Fighting For Leave

Julia 10:21

And then moving on to your story, how did um you and your partner learn that it was the right time for you guys to start having a family? Was this a conscious decision? Did this come from a long time? How did that go for you?

Valentina 10:38

It was definitely a very conscious decision. Uh, we've been together since 2007. Um, so it's already soon gonna be 20 years together. And by the time we decided to start trying, we had already been married for six years, over six years. Um and it was kind of a very natural conversation. Actually, when I met him the first time, very young, so he was 21 or so, um, one of the first things he told me was like, Oh, I was born to be a father. And I was like, okay, but I'm I'm not sure I'm I was born to be a mother, but no pressure. But I always remember that. I always remember that, and it was in the back of my mind, and I was very flexible about motherhood in the sense of I was very career-oriented at that time. I had a lot on my plate for work. I was I was enjoying my career so much as well. So, um, but I've had I've had I've been mothered so beautifully. My mother is just such a gorgeous human, and I had such a strong connection with her that for me it was like, oh, that would be so nice to have that connection with my children. And he was also like one of these people that you know would like we talked a lot actually because I was in the field of maternal health. I had a lot of colleagues that kind of informed my decision and most of their and also the policy that I was working on, realizing how difficult it is for mothers around the world. Before I was a mother, was kind of a big eye-opener, no? That saying, like, okay, I really have to plan this as much as possible. You know, you can plan as much as you want for children, but like they come to tell you that you have to let go of control and and it's they have their own agendas. But it was a great, I think, informative way to understand the difficulties of of being of being a parent in general in in Switzerland. Um, something that I need to mention, which because it was very difficult, is that when we decided and we said, like, yeah, okay, let's let's start trying, um it didn't happen right away, but it was relatively quickly that we got pregnant. I think I must have had like one or two early miscarriages, which I saw very naturally and integrated very beautifully into the journey. Um, and then once it happened, uh then one of our deals as a part, like as a couple, was that he needed to talk to his employer, which at the time was a corporate employer, and tell them that he was gonna take the paternity leave, which was two um months, I think, um, and that he was gonna reduce his percentage because I didn't want to be the one taking the full reduction. I was an entrepreneur. We were had a very beautiful social venture um in Zurich that was like growing, and that I had a big responsibility and I knew I didn't want to leave it aside. So then um I said, okay, you have to reduce. But when he asked for a reduction at the company, they actually um they wanted to fire him, which is interesting because we talk a lot about like equity and health, like on the maternal side, that it requires a partner to also take responsibility for care. But once they try, they also not as much as we do as women, but they also get, especially when it comes to reduction at higher levels of responsibility, they're like, Oh no, at your at your level of responsibility, you can't reduce, otherwise, like buy, you lose your job.

Christine 14:29

So you not only need a partner who's willing to do that, but their employer who's willing to grant it.

Valentina 14:36

So we had to go in the little legal battle, which we won, which was amazing, because we had to laugh a lot, like it does take the white man to be able to get some justice around it, um, which is funny because it's like the person who has probably the most privilege in society. But once he wants to give that space because he wanted to reduce to 60%, so he could take uh the little one two days a week, and then I would be two days a week with her, so then we it would be on me one day that perhaps my parents-in-law could support us. Um, so it's it's these conversations that lead up to the birth and the stress during pregnancy. Going

Hyperemesis And Medical Misinformation

Valentina 15:16

back to one of your questions during pregnancy, how is pregnancy? Um, I've had hiperamesis gravidarium in both pregnancies, the whole pregnancy, which for those who don't know, is just extreme vomiting diarrhea, like um dizziness, not being able to do anything without being medicated. And my mom didn't have that. Uh, so I was very puzzled. I was like, I everybody, no, after three months you're gonna be fine. And I was just like literally like I had to go to the hospital every now and then. I was dehydrated. I was like, what is this? Is this impregnant? I didn't know that hyperamesis was there. Nobody like my doctor didn't, my midwife didn't really tell me that that was the case. And I was just, oh my god, that's tough. That was very, very tough. I had to heal a lot. I had to do a lot of therapy, I believe, to be able to go through a second pregnancy.

Julia 16:18

The bravery to go through a second one is just another level because HG is not the same as regular pregnancy morning sickness, or I mean morning sickness is also the wrong, really the wrong label to put on it, but the regular sort of pregnancy nausea and vomiting. HG is very different. How did the the support then I'm almost afraid to ask how was the support then for you during your pregnancy? If you were going through a legal battle at the time with your husband's employer, were you able to get any kind of support?

Valentina 16:52

Um I was an I had an amazing team at work, so I had support from my team. They were all parents and we had the most gorgeous work environment. Everybody brought their children, the workshops were with children, etc. So I knew I didn't have to worry from my side. They were the most supportive and amazing people ever. Medically, though, uh, because I was not diagnosed early, I was constantly questioning like, what's wrong with me? Like, is it me? Like why everybody says that this should be fine by now? I didn't understand why I had to be medicated the whole time. I felt very guilty about being medicated the whole time. Coming from like, like I wanted everything as natural as possible, you know, as many of us wish. Um, and I was just very frustrated that that was the case, um, especially towards the end of the pregnancy, where obviously my the estimation of the fetus was that it was very small for gestational age, and they were obviously pushing a lot for um for an induction at 37 weeks or for even a C-section. And I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do that. And I remember just doing a crazy amount of research. I think those basically nine months were fully focused on an in-depth research, and that's when I realized it the disconnect between kind of policy and practice. And I knew my rights. That's a good thing, is that I knew what my rights were, and I was very aware of all these things that that helped me a lot.

Julia 18:22

So you knew you could say no, you knew you could question, you knew that policy was not the same as law, like you you you embodied this already. Yes, yes, and then all and then you were put into the situation, still doesn't make it easy.

Valentina 18:36

Yeah, no, but I remember feeling my in my gut feeling I was like, no, that's yeah, that's not right. I'm gonna find another, another second, third, fourth opinion until I realized, okay, what what's happening? What is going on? And sure enough, like I was able to push, push until I was like, no, wait until my baby comes. We will see. Like I was asking, like, what's the risk? And I realized nobody was telling me, like, it was like, oh my god, this is an emergency situation. No, I knew it was like, oh well, you can. I mean, it was all the coercional, like, oh, you want to do this? But the good thing is that at the time the Paracelsius hospital here in Richtersfield was still on, and that was where I got my opinions were which like calmed me down. They were like, no worries, but you know, the doctors and midwives were amazing. They were like, don't worry, like everything is gonna be fine. But I needed to be at a hospital with neonatology. That was that was important because the baby was a response. So I was like, okay, I I'm willing to do that compromise and not birth at the paracelsius, but um I want to make sure that I like that I'm respected throughout the birth. And I think that was the case for the majority of the time. And it was a shock to the system also once the birth started to realize like, oh my god, this is so intense. I had been so into the kidnapped birthing um, you know, uh orgasmic birth community that I was like, oh, I'm just gonna have an orgasmic birth right away. I'm gonna do everything for it. And like, obviously, once it comes, you're like, okay, well, in my case, I was like, this is much more intense than just what I imagine.

Induction Pressure And Saying No

Julia 20:16

But it was also so did did you have signs then? Um that in early labor, did you have uh a feeling things were coming or did things come on really quickly?

Valentina 20:28

I did because my waters broke before, before this started. So then I knew okay, something is gonna start, but contractions were not coming, so I started like dancing at home. You know, I had my playlist of like my teenage years ready, my birthday bowl, like just moving a lot, went for a walk, rested, ate. Like I knew at some point it would start. So then I think I had a lot of anticipation to to the start of the birth, which was very exciting to be honest. I was already 41 weeks in, so I was like, okay, I'm I'm ready, I'm ready for this to happen. And um, so interesting because then the burst unfolded, so they started very slow a little bit. And I was like, Oh, I'm feeling something, and I'm like, Oh, I already have contractions, and then they got like throughout the night, like very intense. So then um I went to the hospital. They said, like, oh well, you know what, this is just starting, go back home. But we were quite far from the hospital, so I was like, oh. So I went to my cousin's place, which was a bit like uncomfortable because they had a little one and we were trying to be quiet, but I was already having really, really strong contractions. And I remember like my mom had arrived um maybe a few weeks before, and I initially went to the hospital without her, with just my partner. And when I was in the hospital, I was like having this like almost like not panic attack, but like palpitations. Like, I want my mom right here. I want it, I want her. And I just told my partner, like, go bring her. I don't know. I will wait here, but go bring my mom. It was like this need of having her, which I thought, oh, you know what? I'll speak after the birth. No, I needed her right there. I wanted her there. So then he went to cat, you know, to her. She came to the my to the cousin's place. Um and then it was getting so much more intense. So then we went back to the hospital, and then they they got off in. Um they were lovely. Um, I tried to work the best I could at the hospital. Everything was actually going relatively well. I knew she was coming at some point, but obviously, because my waters broke at 7 a.m. the night before, the day before, uh, then the protocol of the 24 hours before induction. I tried to push it. So I was like, oh, can we start with the least invasive one? And they're like, Yeah, but we need to do oxytocin. And I just really didn't want to do that. So I was like, Oh, can we do something else? And they were like quite like pushy, like, no, no, no, this is what we need to do. I was developing a little bit of a fever, so then they were like, Okay, we need to put antibiotics too. So I was like, Oh, she's coming, just give her some time. Um, and then uh they induced me, and so I asked if they could do kind of a control trip to do as little oxytocin as possible and to let it like be a little bit to see how it would react. And that was amazing because it was very little and it was already like like after they put like started, and then I said stop it, and it was like from there until she was born, it was very fast, like two hours, and then boom. So I I feel like I got lucky on that sense of because I know how many inductions don't aim that bad way.

Julia 23:56

Um I was quite bummed because of that, but but I was very but it sounds like you could it sounds like you could use your skills to just uh say, okay, let's let's I see the reason for this. I'm developing a fever. Um, it has been a long time. Let's give it a go, really low dose. And then for you to say, now turn it off, that is that is a huge, huge amount of self-advocacy, something that we don't see very often. People feeling confident and saying, turn it off, let's see how it goes. Obviously, of course, if things don't continue, we put it back on. It's not, you know, I'm gonna have the hip lock in my arm anyway, it's not gonna be that hard. And so it sounds like you just needed that little kick start. Yeah, yeah.

Christine 24:43

And and the fact that you need to that you need to ask for that, you know, yeah. The really low, because um a lot of people would say these are the two options, but you don't know. Oh, I can actually choose to start really low on this and to stop it whenever you want.

Valentina 24:58

It's your right, yeah. It's my right, and that but I must say that it's interesting because in both births I was very set into my right, and that's uncomfortable for many midwives and doctors. And uh the doctor actually started kind of like doing a lot of like, oh, you know, this, like, you know, this could have repercussions. I'm like, why do you tell me this right now? You know, like I don't I don't need to hear this. I don't, I just give me support. Let's see what happens. Like, I don't need to hear all this, like, oh, you know what will happen, please. You already have a small baby for just your small. Like, she started to tell me things I already knew at a moment that I was that was very pivotal, but that actually fire. I was like, well, I'm gonna show you this is gonna work.

Julia 25:45

I love that because you're so vulnerable in that in that position. And you can understand how someone that has a person in a white coat, you know, every three to five minutes you're experiencing these surges or contractions, and they're trying to tell you things, scary things about your baby that you've probably already heard before because your baby is small for gestational age, but maybe you've not heard them before. And it can feel really scary, it can also feel really coercive. Um yeah, so I think it's it's just amazing that you you could be so lucid. It's a shame that you almost had to be, you know?

Valentina 26:19

Um you have to be like almost like on a fight or flight mode, like defending. Yeah, you cannot just let go and be in the process because you have to be alert of like, okay, what's happening? I'm sure that disrupts the process.

Julia 26:35

Absolutely. Being uninhibited in birth is so, so, so important. But how can you be uninhibited when you're worried about being watched all the time? Right? Exactly. Exactly. Absolutely. Um okay, so then after they turn, they take the you say, right, let's give it a go. Let's see what it's like without the oxytocin to augment this labor. You say then it was really quick until she was born.

Valentina 26:59

Yeah, yeah. I thought it was for first birth pretty quick. And also when I came home from the hospital and the midwife read the report, she's like, Oh, that was a really quick birth. I was like, That didn't feel like a quick birth. It didn't feel like it. That was quick. I cannot imagine how it's not to have a quick birth then. Like, oh my god, that that must be really, really tough. So I had a lot of respect for all the mothers who burst it before me. Um, it gave me a very, very different perspective.

Postpartum Fear And Breastfeeding Pain

Valentina 27:26

But that and also the first four days postpartum, which I had read how much oxytocin also affects your ability to both from from the breastfeeding perspective, but also your ability to kind of fall in love with your baby. Uh, other little bit of a I don't think anybody falls, I don't know, from what I've heard from my friends and everybody I've talked to and my clients, etc., I don't think you just fall in love with the baby right away. Like you know your baby has been there. And I feel like even with my second birth, which was unmedicated and beautiful, like all within my scope of what I wanted. I also feel like it takes a little bit of like time to adjust to get to know the baby too. But definitely I saw a massive difference between that, which was medicated, with even the little dose of oxytocin that I got. I I realized like how detached I felt from my baby. How looking at her like, is that my baby? Like, really, like, huh? Did I just keep bursting and having trouble kind of grabbing her towards me, which I knew I had to do a lot of or I wanted to do a lot of skin to skin, but like kind of this hormonal process was so strong, and I was so shocked by that because I knew very logically that what I needed to do in order to like you know produce as much as much cholesterol and to have the basically the onset of of the milk come after a few days, etc. But I was and I was doing it, but kind of an autopilot, and I think it had a lot to do with with the oxytocin leaving my body and like not being able to produce your own oxytocin um right away. And obviously the cascade of hormones and the the peak that you have postpartum, etc. But it was very shocking for my system. I remember shaking a lot as well on the first few days postpartum, feeling like I've always been such a strong, like secure woman of like I know what to do, and like feeling incredibly scared of everything, like fearful, like anxious of like my I felt like nobody leave me alone with my baby because my baby's gonna you know die at any moment. I remember this really, really intense, deep feelings. Um, and then I asked for a psychiatrist at the at the hospital. I I on the fourth day postpartum, I was like, I had so much pain breastfeeding. And I mean, I was like, you know, I need to ask for for help. Uh, I was obviously asking for dilatation consultants, etc. But everybody was like, oh, I'll just pump and give her like a bottle. Now I was like, I'm not gonna give her a bottle because I know how much that can disrupt the process. Uh, but I I want to give her my pump milk or colostrum, that's fine. And that was another little bottle, also, like uh again, protecting my wish to breastfeed, but having a lot of pain. So then I asked for the psychiatrist, and he was amazing actually. He came and said, like, listen, this is this is the process. Today's the fourth day, it's a very, very difficult day for the majority of people in postpartum. He explained everything like super clearly, and it was so beautiful. He said, Like, listen, you're gonna go home, and I'm sure that there you're gonna start feeling better. But if by Monday, and that was a Friday, if by Monday you feel like everything is incredibly off, and I will come on this level. And I was like, Okay, all right, that feels like a good plan. Kind of for the first time, someone gave me kind of like anticipatory guidance on like this is how it's gonna happen, this is what we're gonna be feeling. And sure enough, I got home, I couldn't sleep, I felt like oh at peace. I was surrounded by love, I was at my in-boss because I wanted to be with my my-law, my in-laws are incredible. I'm so lucky to have such a like supportive family. So I wanted to be with the two grandmas there, like kind of like this feeling like in Colombia that you have multi-generational households. And I was like, no, I want that right now. And it was what I needed. Um, and sure enough, things started to get better. But I had incredible pain for the first three months um of breastfeeding, and I kept researching. I must have seen 20 different professionals for uh breastfeeding, and nobody could tell me what was going on. Everybody was like, just give her a bottle, just give her a bottle. And I was like, No, I want a breastfeed. Like, someone give me a solution. Oh, just lesser your breasts. And I was like, Yeah, but that's like putting a band aid on something. I want to know what's the root cause. And it was not until I found the letter that I was able to feel like heard. Um, I remember I just took the phone call. I remember, oh, I know about the letter, I'm gonna give them a call. And I called, and the second person I called picked up, and she was speaking Spanish as well, so it was really nice. And only with that call for like one hour with that amazing human who turned out to be my doula eventually as well. Uh, I was like, ah, okay, someone is listening, someone is not telling me to give her a bow. She gave me really good tips about position and everything. But I'm not looking at the baby, I'm not seeing it. But you may want to look into oral restrictions. There's something is not right. Like she asked me, how's it like the shape of your nickel once she comes out? And I was like, Oh, it's like a lipstick, it's like very flat. And she's like, hmm, she basically over the phone could tell me everything that nobody in person would tell me. She invited me to a meeting, and I went to the meeting, and it was beautiful. I was like, Oh my god, okay, I'm in community, like there are other people also struggling, but other people like then. I was looking across the room and there was this lady tandem feeding, and I was like, wow, that's the most fascinating thing in the world. I was just always so obsessed with breastfeeding. I just remember breastfeeding. My mom has been a breastfeeding advocate, so for me it was very important, and getting this around it was so difficult.

Christine 33:36

Hi, I'm Christina, Adula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lily Bee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community, and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village. Find yours here.

Finding La Leche League Support

Julia 33:58

So beautiful the way you describe this multi-generational housing and how you came home and felt and had that feeling, this bubble. I wish this so much for every woman and every family out there. And I actually know how rare this is, um, especially in a country which is as mobile as Switzerland is and has such multicultural um population. Wow. And then to find La Legge League in Spanish, to find this perfect advocate for you, did you go have to go down an oral tie revision process, or was baby old enough that it that didn't have to happen? How how did the rest of your postpartum look?

Valentina 34:37

So that's a great question because right after, um, then I started to kind of question that and look at the signs, but the baby was already like kind of her mouth was big enough. I had worked so much around positioning and latching that I managed to find a way so that it wouldn't hurt anymore. Um so then I was like, oh, this is working, this is working very well. Something that is very important to mention is that I had actually I had breast implants if in my previous, so before I gave birth to my first one. And that's another story for another time. I never wanted them, I ended up having them. It was always felt like, oh, I want them out. Like I felt like such a rejection from my body. That then once I the little one was about one year and two months, uh then through La Lechalique, I was so inspired that I decided to to do the the La Lechalique um education with them to become like a breastfeeding counselor, like peer counselor. And I did it with within like eight eight months approximately. And when I got to the module of oral size and I started to like reach deeper into it, I was like, oh my god, this is a like this is like this is what's happening. And I wanted to look into her mouth. She had the biggest tongue tight, the biggest lip tight, but it was not the it was not the one at the tip, which is the anterior um tie, that is like the one that is really attached to the gum, or that it's very visual that when the babies try to take their tongue out, it's like a heart, it's not that one, it's the the posterior one, which is almost undetectable to the eye of the person who's not, as you may know, been trained to assess a baby. Nobody ever looked into her mouth. Nobody. So obviously, nobody saw the Tyson because she opened quite well. I had an overproduction, so weight was never an issue. Then nobody was worried because oh, baby's gaining weight, then it's not a problem.

Julia 36:38

But like listen, listen to the mother, though, people. Like, listen to the mother, right?

Valentina 36:44

That's why I decided no, I need to, I want to specialize on oral ties and on like just on anything that requires because you hear, oh, breastfeeding shouldn't hurt, and it shouldn't hurt, but it's hurt sometimes. And sometimes because there's something behind it, and I wanted to make sure it was my mission just to accompany as many mothers not to have to not to have that experience, especially when they wanted to breastfeed. It's different. If someone tells me, Valentina, I'm here, I'm not sure, um, I'm fine without it, like then we work with your with the mother's wishes. Again, listen to the mother, whatever you wish. We we ask with professionals, we explain a little bit the risks, the benefits, etc. And the parents have to make an informed decision. But I don't want anybody who wishes to to have to stop their journey prematurely and have to go through that griefing process of leaving breastfeeding. For me, it would have been a horrible experience, brief, a really big griefing process if I had stopped my journey then, which many times I wanted to, because I was like, I don't know if I can do this. So then, but I told you about the implants because that not because that affected, because it was I made sure when I make when when I went to the surgery that I asked the doctor, just do everything in your power so that it does not like first that you don't cut the arola, that you don't do as much, as much because you always have a risk when you have a breast operation. But you make sure that I can breastfeed or that I can at least like partially breastfeed, but that's a very important part for me. And I was 21 at that time. And then I'm telling you that story because when I was when I was about a year and two months postpartum, one of the of the implants um encapsulated and fell out of the place of like sometimes they are in like a little space, and it like practically was swimming. The implant was swimming, and another part that was not my breast, it was horrible. And I was shocked one time that I went to take a shower and I was like, what the hell is happening? Like, what is this? So then I had to go through six different surgeons to try to figure not surgeries, but surgeons to figure

Tongue Ties And Becoming An Advocate

Valentina 38:59

out one person who could perform a surgery and that I could keep breastfeeding. And all the surgeons were so focused on the aesthetics that they were like, no, no, no, you have to stop breastfeeding if you want this operation. And I had to research the world literally, which I'm writing an article on this because not many that it was so hard to find information about it. And the seventh surgeon I visited was a woman who had breastfeed. And she's like, of course, this is possible, of course, as long as the anesthesia, as long as soon as the anesthesia leaves your body, you're gonna be able to continue breastfeeding, you're gonna have the drains, it's gonna be a bit uncomfortable, but you can do it. And I was like, and we will do it this way, we have we have to do it underneath, you know, um, underneath the breast so that it doesn't affect the the ducts. I'll be able to, I'll I'll I'll make it happen, no worries. And I was like, and she never mentioned, oh, this is how your breasts are gonna look after, because that was what all the other surgeons were focusing on. So I was able to have the surgery, and basically I breastfed up to the moment I went into the operation room. I went into the operation room, had the surgery. As soon as I woke up, I've had my one and a half year old on the breast again, and it's incredible how much they know. I was nervous about her moving around like the drains or anything, and I had to have a lot of support the first week at night when she would wake up. But she was so careful. I was like, Oh my god, stays Mama has weakness in her breast, very careful. She's like, and I don't know if many people want to hear this, but she went to self-weaning, and the last time she breastfed was when she said, I'm gonna turn when I turn six, I'm gonna stop breastfeeding. And that day we did that ritual. She turned six, and she never ever asked for the breast again. So it was like, oh, it was such a healing journey, to be honest, from that pregnancy. Like for me, I was holding on to breastfeeding because it was my it was the thing that I knew I could do with my body that I that I felt like I I didn't fail her, but that I was so that it was so difficult to process. It was kind of a very healing and very important part for me. So it was like, oh, what a journey. But then I went to having my second one and then tandem feeding them was a gorgeous, it's was a gorgeous experience, and I'm still breastfeeding my little one, but um it's kind of a message for people not never to like give up on something that it's important to them because I hear so many mothers that they really want to continue and they tell them, oh, you just have to get, I don't know, an MRI or whatever done, and you have to stop breastfeeding. And I'm like, ah, there's so many professionals who are well intended and they do it from a place of misinformation and knowledge. But there's some so many journeys that have been cut short because they think that they are not alternative medicines to continue breastfeeding, or that I don't know, that they somehow are not informed, so then they think like everybody has to lean whenever they need to do that. There are some cases obviously with radiation and other situations where it's more complex, but in the majority of the cases, there are alternatives to continue real journey.

Christine 42:18

Just a really good lesson in asking for a second and third and fourth, in your case, seventh opinion. What is the what is the age gap between your kids? How long were you? Um four years, yeah. Two years four years, four years and two months and three months, yeah. Okay. So you had two years of tandem feeding. Yeah, I had two years of tandem feeding. How was that in in pregnancy and and when the little one was born? Was there how how was that for the for the older one or for you?

Valentina 42:54

So for for me, I was more scared about again. I had to process a lot and do a lot of therapy with my psychologist, which I'm gonna mention. I know you mentioned in the paper not mentioning names, but this one I will mention her because I just adore her and I don't know where I would be mentally without her. And that's Alini that helped me. She's a prenatal psychologist, and she was my doula as well in second birth. And um, with her, I was able to process a lot of the fears that I had, tremendous fears of being pregnant again. It was very hard for me to for me, birth and postpartum give it to me anytime. At the pregnancy, I knew I had to like yeah, really, really focus on doing the best I could to prepare. Um, so I didn't want to stop wrestling. My little one was also not ready. She's quite high and highly sensitive. Um, for her, it was her happy place. Her northern place, it was my happy place. It was like helped her sleep calm down regularly. Um everything. So then I was like, no, I'm not ready to stop. So then

Surgery With Implants While Nursing

Valentina 44:06

we were ready to kind of start trying again. I was already doing a lot of home visits and a lot of groups and seeing a lot of tiny babies, and my body was like, baby. Very much like, I want a baby right now. And my partner was also like, oh, I was already, let's try again. And we tried, and right away, like the first time we tried, we got pregnant. Um, I got pregnant, not really. I did. I carried a baby. I did the work. But um, and then I was very scared about how it would feel during hyperMS to breastfeed because I've heard that sometimes it can make your symptoms worse, but sometimes it can make it better. And in the sense that for me, it was an ideal because I knew it was the way that I could rest while still like if she needed to sleep, she was there with me, she nursed, and she could sleep. Like she was older. I mean, she was three when I got pregnant, so she was older to sometimes she would sleep without it with the breast, sometimes she wouldn't sleep with the breast, some nights she would go without, some nights we would go with. Like it was, but I could talk to her, I could explain her, like, this is how mommy's feeling. And it was a very different pregnancy from many perspectives from my preparation, from my anticipation of knowing what was coming. What was difficult is what was that I was working at a foundation and I knew what was coming, and I had just started that job. So maybe three months into the job, I got pregnant. And I and I did tell them very early because I knew what was coming, and I laid out like a full strategy for the rest of the year so that they would not like, you know, so that they would not feel like you know how we do we do things, um, trying to make people us less um uncomfortable about the fact that we're pregnant, even though it's not our job and we should not do that. But I wanted to just it was a small organization, I had a lot of responsibility. I didn't want to leave them just in the air, so I knew that those first weeks I could power through. And sure enough, I did that, but I had a very tough again, second time. Now it was me. I had a lot of like pushback. They wanted me, uh, they started to kind of push for me to quit. Um, because I mean it was horrible. Anyways, we're not gonna put too much energy into that, but I knew my rights again, and I talked to my lawyer, who's um an amazing lawyer. If anybody ever needs a lawyer, she can contact me because she works on pro bono on maternal protection. And I had been working with her at La De Chile League and et cetera, and it was really amazing to have her by my side. She told me this is where you need to contact, this is what you need to do. My health team was incredibly different from my first time. It was a team of midwives, and my daughter was in, I mean, they were really supportive. They were like, No, no, no, you don't have to go through this stress, you don't have to go through this. Uh, you're already medicated, you're already um having a high-risk pregnancy. Basically, you need you need to have your peace. We know how cortisol affects pregnancies. Uh, you don't need to go through this. And I went on sick leave and had my rights. Oh, oh, like these are my rights. And I'm not gonna give that. But from the side of like the medical side, I was so supported. It was the midwives that I was working with, so they were super loving and caring. And um, the alternative, also the medicine that I had with my first pregnancy was very, very invasive, was the one that is given to cancer patients, basically, when they go through um chemotherapy. So it was very invasive and a lot of secondary effects for me and for the baby. It had a lot of secondary effects of like depression, anxiety, etc., which I never had in my history of my life. So then I knew that everything that I was kind of filling was a lot related to that, and that had months of repercussions. So then in this time, it was like really lovely to have like a different medication to try the least invasive side of things to be very kind of nurtured through the whole pregnancy made a massive difference. So I did, I was sick until the end, but I I it was very much manageable through medications and and I felt so much stronger. And it could train throughout the whole pregnancy, it could be active um while still resting, and the breastfeeding part like it wasn't comfortable to breastfeed, especially during the night while pregnant. But at some point I told her, like, it's hard for me to feed. Like we started counting or singing a song, and then she would stop and she like played along amazingly. And sure enough, Papa like stepped in so much more for Nathan. She got used to sleeping more with dad, and that was amazing for the transition.

Julia 49:08

Hi, Julia here. If you're pregnant, preparing for birth, or navigating those intense early weeks with the newborn, I want you to know you can plan for this time with confidence and support. I'm a Zurich-based doula, and I support families through pregnancy, birth preparation, and postpartum with services like birth preparation workshops, hypnobirthing plus courses, postpartum massage, and personalized postpartum meal planning, designed to help you feel calmer, more confident, and truly cared for during this time. Supporting families in this way isn't just my work, it is truly my passion. I believe this kind of care is part of a quiet

Second Pregnancy With Better Care

Julia 49:52

revolution, one where parents are supported, listened to, and valued. You can learn more or book with me at juliathedoula.ch, and you'll find me on Instagram at juliathedoula.ch. And now let's get back to this week's Swiss birth story.

Valentina 50:16

It was a plan home birth, and um it was an amazing team. So I had two doulas and two midwives. And at first they were all a bit like, okay, that's a bit excessive. But once we worked together, they were like, oh my god, this makes so much sense. At first it was a bit like, what are we all gonna be doing here? Why are so many of us? But once they were here, they were like, it was like a flow, like everybody had their place. It was gorgeous, it was dreamy, beautiful. I was having the most beautiful birth at home, and my waters broke, and I had my conium in the in the waters. So, but it was, I mean, it started shaking because I was like, Oh, I know what this means. Like, we have to go to the hospital, but it was okay. Like, I was like, okay, let's do it. They grabbed my hand, they were like, You're it's fine, you're gonna be well, everything is let's let's just go with the flow, let's take it little by little. And we went very slowly. I remember Aline driving the car, and it felt like it was Saturday night before Christmas, and I thought that's gonna be the most horrible ride because traffic and everything. I don't know what road she took, but it was like, I remember like floating, like super easy. We got to the hospital, right? I thought they were waiting for us at the hospital. Um, once I got to the hospital, they were trying to put the drip as the protocol, and they they couldn't, like I had really intense contractions by then. So then my midwife here was like, oh, just leave her, it's fine. Like, like she's like a 60-year-old like midwife that everybody knows. So then the other ones were like, okay, okay. So I managed to kind of surpass the protocol of the drip. But um, very soon after, maybe like I think less than half an hour, like maybe 15-20 minutes in. I was like, Oh, I have to maybe have to boom. And I had to like run to the bathroom, and I was like, nope, that's the baby, like that's the head of the baby now. Like, no, just just relax, you have to put and I was like, nope, that's the head of the baby. And it was kind of like a corridor, like it was not like like a real, like it they gave us a little room, but it was not the room that I was gonna birth in. And then they had to, like, the midwife came checking, she's like, yeah, the baby's coming. And then the doctor had to rush in. But they like I pushed her twice. I tried to breathe through, but couldn't, like, it was like a roar, a massive roar, and like I couldn't control it. It was like what my baby wanted to do. They were like, slow down, slower. And I was like, No, I can't. And I was like on fours, kind of leaning towards the side, and I mean, like, not leaning, but like standing on fours, and then she came out and I like grabbed her myself and I put her on my chest, and everybody was super chill because I was expecting, like, they were, I don't know, because of the mecconium, that something was gonna happen. Everybody was relaxed, and it's like, okay, they they found a place to put like a little bed to put me, like they put me there, they started examining everything on the top of me and everything. And I was like, why is nobody like rushing? Is everything fine? And she's like, they were like, No, everything is fine. Your waters just broke and they were clear. And I was like, but my waters broke at home, and they had Niconium, and they're like, No, your waters just broke and they were clear. And I was like, What's going on? I didn't know what was going on, but I was like, okay, I'm gonna enjoy the time that I have right now. We were so excited, it was very fast. Uh, from the moment it started until like I pushed her out, it was like a couple of hours. And when they checked me, the reason why they didn't think she was coming was because when the water they saw the water with my cone went home, the midwife checked and she's like, Oh, you're like not yet two centimeters, so I think you have time. It was the only time they checked

Home Birth Plan And Hospital Transfer

Valentina 54:18

vaginally because there was no need before. Um, so then when I got to the hospital, they had just checked me what, like 30 minutes before. So they were like, Oh, you have time, and I must have gone from like one to ten to transition to pushing within that like half an hour. I don't know, 40 minutes, maybe 45 minutes. I don't know. So it was a gorgeous birth at the end, very beautiful and very like I mean, interrupted through the way, but still it felt like very positive, and I was had full confidence on the team. Like I had no worries that something wrong would happen. And they're serious, yeah.

Christine 55:01

And the midwives that you had at home came with you and stayed?

Valentina 55:06

They couldn't stay. They couldn't stay because they were not the lake um, so then they were not the ones that are registered with the hospital. Um, but they they really, I mean, uh only one came and then she she couldn't really like. I mean, she had just left when I gave birth, and the next day when she came home, because I I had like an ambulatory birth, they checked everything and I just came home. And when I when she came home the next day, she's like, she was looking at the paper, she's like, She was born at seven. And I was like, Yeah, but I I left at 650 or 55. She's like, Are you sure this is this the right? Did they make him sick? And I was like, No, she was born right after I left. And did your doulas stay with you? Uh one one left and one stayed with me. I think because you know, you cannot have so many people.

Christine 55:57

And did they ever give you an explanation for the two waters?

Valentina 56:02

They have a theory that because my second baby was sitting for a long time until like week 36, I think she had not turned. Uh, she must have pooed, and the body must have encapsulated the poo. And like they they say that sometimes that can happen, but it's very, very, very rare. But then that poo gets encapsulated into a different sack. And when she was pushing to go down, the first sack that basically exploded must have been that one, because the second one is clear. So the one she was in was clear, and she says that that is an evolutionary advantage that must be something that that can happen because there was no other explanation, it was not my pool, it was literally like coming from from the vaginal from the vineyard.

Julia 56:54

Yeah, I was gonna say that both of these experiences, so water breaking with meconium and water breaking like when a baby's being born, it usually comes out in quite like a gush if it's all coming out at the same time. You cannot mistake either of those things. Like it's not like it's not a mistake. Both things were experienced, we're we're observed. That's really remarkable, isn't it? The body is incredible.

Valentina 57:16

I was so shocked. I was like so thankful.

Julia 57:19

And wow, it's still kind of a mystery, but it's incredible to see that that's that is, and then so you had an ambulatory birth, which means yeah, you have a very short stay in the hospital and then you go straight home after. Um, was it hard to organize that because you had done a transfer, or did they did that did that process go easily for you?

Valentina 57:41

It went relatively easy, I think, because they knew I was planning a home birth. I think it may be a bit different if someone is planning a hospital birth and says, Oh, I want to go home. But because you and they knew my midwife, and they knew that I was planning to give birth at home, they knew I had all the setup at home for because they need, you know, and then when you give birth at home, the the doctor comes, the midwives come every day. So it's like how you would have kind of not the same care that in the hospital in the sense that you don't have the same intervention or like checkup at the same level, but you need to have um daily, yeah.

Fast Birth And Ambulatory Postpartum

Julia 58:18

You don't have the button button to press for a nurse or midwife to come, but you still have that daily support and then it's integrated into the Swiss system. So then how um so then how did you experience your postpartum with your second child on the in that experience, but then also in comparison with your first?

Valentina 58:36

Ah, it was gorgeous, it was uh gorgeous. It was from the very first second I put her on. I was like, oh, I was so happy. I didn't want anybody to take her away from me. They're the younger midwives in in the hospital. We're like, and we want to examine like they were trying to get her to examine her somewhere. I was like, nope, you examine her on the top of me right here. And they were like, no, no, no, no, right here. We want to wash her. No, I'll fing her a little bit and I'll put the nappy. So they were like, I think they thought I was like a lion, which I don't care. It's like just do everything on me. And they made me sign a release form because I was misdiagnosed with gestational diabetes during the pregnancy. But my doctor knew, but it was one of those because of with hiperimesis cases. It's very common that when you do the diabetes test, because you've been fasting so long, longer than you usually fast with hiperimesis, I had to eat, even wake up at 3, 4 in the morning to eat so that I wouldn't be so sick. Um, then obviously I fast from 7, 8 p.m. until like 7, 8 a.m. in the morning, like my body, like the glucose levels were crazy. Um, so then they had to still put it as diabetes because it was before the test. So it was the first checkup. But they I did the whole like follow-up with um the nutritionist and everything, and I had to like check for the sugar insulin levels and it's et cetera. And everything was always normal, always. But because that one tongue was up, then you're missed you're diagnosed, but you're actually misdiagnosed. So then on the chart for the hospital, then it said that then I I had extracted colostrum from week 37, so I had like quite a lot of colostrum with me. Um, and then at the hospital, they were like, Oh, before you we release you, you have to we have to supplement her. And I was like, No way, like you're not gonna supplement her. I have my if something, I have my colostrum. And they made me give her like basically because I just wanted them out of my head, like my hair, whatever, however you say it. And then I was like, okay, I'll just give her two of my like colostrum syringes. But like I gave her one, and I kept like she was brilliantly at the breast, she was suctioning, she was like and you had been tandem feeding at the time, so no, I was like, I but I I did check her within the first hours, the little one, um oral restrictions given my history, and sure enough, she was she also had a she had a much more restrictive uh tongue tie. So then, but I I I I knew the positioning and everything, so I could bring her home. And then with my postpartum midwives, who are the ones that I had been working on with, um, then we checked together and we confirmed, and then the first week I just went to do a lesser revision. With my first one, I never did revision because she was too old by the time I got to know, and it's very tricky to do a revision on a toddler for safety reasons. Obviously, they won't stop moving, and that's very dangerous. Um, but I do see a massive difference, for instance, on mouth breathing, like the firstborn mouth breathes throughout the night. She has a lot of chronic bronchitis, she has big respiratory problems. Um an anxious child in general. Of course, when you breathe through the mouth throughout the night, then your cortisol levels are so high. So I do see a lot of replications from not having that revision done early. And this one, the polar opposite, like super easy breastfeeding journey. And sure, it

Tongue Tie Revision And Feeding Ease

Valentina 1:02:18

was interesting to see the first week postpartum. It was very intense because she only wanted to get the breast. Like she she just like couldn't get enough, I think. And then right after the revision, it was like, oh, this is what it means to feed someone without a restriction, because even with my older one annoying, it was always a bit uncomfortable. And with it was the first time I had pure pleasure breastfeeding, like really, really, really like not mental, but like really physiological, like physical pleasure. And I was like, oh, this is what it should feel like. So it was a good decision. And the tandem feeding went really lovely because whenever like the big one was still taking some naps, not every day. So then when she was tired, I would put the two up the breast. She was very excited. We had read a lot of books about tandem feeding, so she was very excited about holding her hand, like coming together. And um, the postpartum period was like, I must say, for me, because I love breastfeeding, it was really beautiful. So it was kind of a dream to have them at the same time. But I know for many women art it can be very overwhelming, but for me it was actually the opposite. It was like, oh, that's my magic wand. I will just use it as long as I can. When it got a bit tricky, was when the little one turned one, the little one, so my youngest one, she started pushing the sister. She didn't want to, she was kind of, you know, how they get a bit possessive at around like one, two, they start like thing, so she started to it started to get carotid to feed them at the same time. So then I had like ever since she turned one, I did mostly single feeding, like one or the other, but not at the same time. Um, that worked better, yeah. Especially regulating after kindergarten, it was the only time that she would drink the big one, was when she would come back from kindergarten, which is a moment where there's a lot of emotions and everything, you know, which is like it would be our moment. She was no longer breastfeeding to sleep or throughout the night or any other time of the day. And then she started feeding maybe one once every two days. Then she slowly started asking less. And um, there was just one time before she turned six that they breastfed at the same time because she was telling the the little one, the big one was telling the little one, like, hey, um, don't worry, the breasts are gonna be only for you from two weeks on. Um, and it was crazy how the like the little one understood, and then they breastfed together for the last time, I think. And it was like it was not chaotic how it had been in the past year to try to fit them together. It was just really peaceful. And I was like, oh, I thought it was a nice kind of closure for the pandemic part, but but it was it was stressful to fit them together for about a year, you know.

Julia 1:05:22

I was going to ask how the big one, how did she react to being pushed away from her little sister? Did she feel sort of um insulted or did she feel sad? Or was it was it like I know I were they both feeling possessive? And then like how how did that how did that go?

Valentina 1:05:42

No, the big one has always been such a gentle soul, like no, very understanding, but I also have to be careful because she can be very giving. Like she can, like, for instance, the little one grabs something from her, like then I have to protect her more from the little one that has a much much that has a stronger. Personality than the other way around. So she would always be like, okay, and she would just move on. And I tried to tell her, No, it's okay, you will stay here, and also to try to put limits on the little one and say, No, right now is the time for Ambosa to feed and um also work a little bit about boundaries for the little one to respect also and honor the time that I wanted to spend with the big one. Sometimes it would work, sometimes we would end up in like chaos from the little one. But it started to work really well because she would come back from the big one, would come back from kindergarten at a time when the little one was asleeping. So it would, anyways, whether she would come to meet and she would come back by herself from the kindergarten. So then she would come up, and then usually if I if I was in bed with the deal one, then she would just lay next to us and relax for a little bit while I could stand up, or um if I

Tandem Feeding Boundaries And Weaning

Valentina 1:06:56

was already like making lunch or something, then we would like come like come together, relax, sit down, and then she would feed, and then it would be her own time, and then the little one would not know us. So it was good timing in in the sense that the other one started having only one nap, etc. But but yeah, all the things you have to calculate to make this work. Yeah.

Julia 1:07:24

Oh man. Um I've loved the story, but I am looking at the time. I want to continue it forever. I would continue it all morning. Um, but before we do head off and say goodbye, we have our final question to ask you, if that's okay. And we always ask the same question, and it's very open and broad, and that's intentional. Um, we ask you in your whole experience in this journey of becoming a mother, what memory do you have that sticks out as being your most brilliant moment?

Valentina 1:08:02

I have to say the night ritual that I did with the little one when she stopped breastfeeding. Um because I had read a lot about self-winning, and I thought, like, well, it's never fully self- I mean self-winning from the child, child-led winning. Uh, but the mom always has to put limits throughout the whole relationship. And what people don't realize or when they hear that, it's like, oh, mom, mom is fully like selfless, and then she never like puts limit on the kid, and the kid does whatever they want, but that's not true. They have a lot of limitations within their wishes, and um these these unsleep, co-sleeping until they want, because I my big biggest memories of or happiest memories as a child was co-sleeping with either my mom, my aunt, or my grandma. Then for me, co-sleeping and feeding was something I wanted to let them decide, unless, of course, it wouldn't work for me. But since it was working, then I'll definitely say like the cuddly co-sleeping class, this idea of like the ritual of her deciding, which I didn't believe. I thought she was not gonna do it because she was still feeding relatively constant for a six-year-old. I was like, okay, yeah, you're gonna self-thing you're gonna stop when you turn six, and to see that she honored that, despite the fact that I'm sure she wanted to sometimes keep nursing, and she really like rationally said, nope, this is the last time I thought it was like is sometimes as a self or as a breastfeeding mom, you think like, Oh, is this ever gonna change if I don't do anything? Like, if I don't win at night, is the baby or kid never gonna stop asking for milk? And it comes at some point, it all comes. It's almost like letting go of the control. And it's it was the easiest way for me. I know it's not the easiest way for everybody, but for me, it was definitely a highlight.

Christine 1:10:07

I love that. And that you found that you found a way that worked for you and for your kids, and that that just felt right, and that's that's the take home, I think. I mean, no matter what that looks like for other people, I'm really happy you found it for for you. Thank you so much for for sharing your beautiful story. Stories.

Valentina 1:10:32

Thank you both for listening. And um, I can't wait to hear yourself. I'm gonna

Self Weaning Ritual And Closing

Valentina 1:10:40

do you have an episode where we can listen to both of your stories?

Christine 1:10:44

We've had a few requests. I think we better get on that, Julie.

Julia 1:10:47

It's it's time to get it out there. Yeah, we do. We have them, we have them waiting in the wings. Um, but we've we've had enough requests that it is, it is time. It is coming. Coming. Thank you. I can't wait to share either, honestly. Thank you so much, Valentina. I've loved this. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow. So please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents to be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. And be sure to follow us on social media at SwissBirth Stories for even more tips, resources, and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses, and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, and birth stories too. So feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, SwissBirthstories.com, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning, and keep connecting with each other.