S03E06 Lisa: From Recurring Loss to Hard Choices to Motherhood. A Rare Diagnosis, Donor Egg IVF Across Borders, and a Birth That Tested Every Limit.

Lisa's resources are below this description

What an episode. When Lisa is told again and again that her recurring miscarriages are “just bad luck,” she knows that's not it. She follows her intuition, pushes for deeper testing, and finally gets an answer. Lisa has a balanced chromosomal translocation, a rare genetic rearrangement that makes naturally conceived pregnancies far more likely to end.

That diagnosis forces impossible choices. Lisa and her Swiss husband look at IVF realities, adoption barriers, and the heartbreak of more loss, then choose donor egg IVF. But because egg donation is illegal in Switzerland (a topic discussed in the episodes), they travel to a Greek fertility clinic and learn the logistics and emotions of cross-border care, donor screening, anonymity, and what it means to build a family this way. 

The first transfer works, but pregnancy still brings health anxiety, intense symptoms, and the lingering fear that good news can disappear.

Then comes birth. Lisa shares her fears of childbirth, why she planned a hospital birth in Kantonspital Winterthur with doula support, how an induction is recommended after late-pregnancy measurements, and what it’s like to move through a long, brutal labour when pain relief doesn’t fully touch the intensity. 

We also unpack the cascade of interventions, vacuum-assisted delivery, brief newborn oxygen support, retained placenta surgery, a severe postpartum haemorrhage, and the months of triple feeding and guilt that follow. It’s a raw, honest story about resilience, anger, tenderness, all so generously shared by the honest and candid conversation with Lisa. 

If this conversation helps you, please subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a rating and review so more parents and parents to be in Switzerland can find these stories.

Here are Lisa's resources:

Fertility specialist in Zurich: https://www.kinderwunsch-zuerich.ch/

Lisa's clinic in Greece where was matched with her egg donor: https://www.newlife-ivf.co.uk/

Christine was Lisa's doula: www.lilybee.ch

Lisa can be contacted here for connecting about issues like balanced translocation, fertility assistance, donor eggs: lisa.schwander712@gmail.com

Transcript

Meet Lisa And Her Family

Julia 0:08

Hi, and welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, doula, hypnobirthing specialist, and perinatal educator.

Christine 0:17

And I'm Christine Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. Today we're talking to Lisa, who grew up in Canada, fell in love with a Swiss man, and built a life she never imagined wanting. Marriage, a home in Switzerland, and eventually the deep desire to become a mother. But Lisa's path to parenthood was anything but straightforward. After multiple miscarriages and doctors assuring her it was just bad luck, she trusted her intuition and pushed for answers. Testing revealed she had a balanced chromosomal translocation, meaning most naturally conceived pregnancies wouldn't continue. Lisa and her husband decided to pursue donor egg IVF in Greece, an option not available in Switzerland, and became pregnant on the first attempt. This is a powerful story of resilience, intuition, and the many different ways motherhood can begin.

Julia 1:10

Hi Lisa, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. We are so happy to have you here. Could you start off by telling us a little bit about you and your family?

Lisa 1:21

Yes. First of all, I'm glad I could finally do this. It's been a long time coming. I've been in Switzerland, married to my Swiss husband for eight and a half years. And we have one daughter who was conceived through donor egg. Uh yep. And uh before that, I was living and working in Germany, and that's how I met my husband. So I just skipped over the border. I'm originally from Canada.

Christine 1:55

Uh so you always already give us a little bit of a teaser, but um, would you tell us how pregnancy came about, what that decision was like, and what

Wanting A Baby Later In Life

Christine 2:05

that journey was like for you?

Lisa 2:07

Yes. Okay, so I want to preface this by saying that I was not someone who ever thought or even wanted to get married. Didn't have strong urges to become a mother, just didn't see that in my future. I was uh a teacher, I was working internationally, I was living in Korea, I was hopping between Africa and Asia for a while. Um, I just wanted to, I just wanted to be out in the world. I did not care about having a partner. So when I met my husband, it all happened very fast. And when we got together, I even remember us saying, like, we probably not gonna have a family, like we don't really want it. Um, maybe what they say is true about the biological clock ticking because I married him when I was 31, 32, I should know this, but 31, 32. And about a year after we'd been married, I just I suddenly wanted it. I wanted to have not just a baby, I wanted to have his child. I just thought we could have a really lovely family together. So he was like, uh, okay. He was a trooper. He was like, okay, if that's what you want. I just wanted one kid, just one. We thought it would be easy because for everyone around me, for the most part, it was easy. And even being quote unquote older in my 30s, I still, yeah, I thought it would happen pretty fast right away. Um, it took a little over a year just to get a positive pregnancy test. So when I did get that positive, I was really scared and like shocked, but also really happy. That ended in an early miscarriage. It was devastating. I still remember where I was, what I was wearing, what time it was. I remember everything. It was so devastating, even though it was so early. And I don't like saying chemical pregnancy for some

Recurrent Miscarriage And Dismissal

Lisa 4:25

reason, because uh if for me it was it's a miscarriage early.

Julia 4:30

No, it absolutely is. Um it absolutely is a pregnancy loss, a miscarriage. Um, with that moment you have that positive pregnancy test, you build a future. And so when you lose that pregnancy, it's totally devastating because you lose the future as well. You lose the due date, you lose so much. It is completely devastating.

Lisa 4:54

And so that happened, and then funny enough, it after that I got pregnant pretty easily. It seemed like every third cycle I could get pregnant, but then I would I kept having these early miscarriages between like five and six weeks. And I, of course, after the first one, we like started the getting tested, like going to the fertility specialist and seeing what I had every single test under the sun. I won't go into detail about them, but at the beginning, when they would tell me, like, oh, your test result came back negative, fine. There's like I was happy, but then after a while, you just kind of want an answer. Like they would tell me, like, oh, like it's not this, like, that's great. And it's like, no, that's not great, because then what? Like, what is it? And every doctor here kept telling me it's just bad luck, it's just bad luck. No. So I had in total five uh early miscarriages, and I thought this can't just be bad luck. Like, I knew deep down there had to be more. I had even undergone a laparoscopy to check for endo endometriosis, which I did end up having a little tiny bit that they removed, but it was probably not um what was responsible for the the miscarriages. Um I was also doing, I did two cycles of where they they you have to do injections to stimulate the ovaries, just to make bigger follicles and hopefully like a better egg. I did two cycles of that. It was useless. It I actually developed like horrific pelvic pain from that, that got to a point where it was so bad that I had to go on the mini-pill for four months to stop my cycles completely. And that was devastating because even though I was in so much pain, we were still trying because I was like, I like I just want to be pregnant and stay pregnant. And I felt like we're getting this is taking way more time than I anticipated. We're getting older, like I don't have time to take a break from it. Um, so yeah, I went on the pill, stopped my cycles. It actually ended up the being the best thing, the best thing because it did stop the mystery pain. No one could figure out what was wrong with me. Um, but it stopped that. And so fast forward, I think it had been three years at this point.

Julia 7:55

That must have felt like such an eternity.

Lisa 7:58

It was, and I basically at this point just lived in constant fear of pregnancy announcements. It was brutal. Like I I just I felt like I was being left behind. There was no answer. There was no, even if it was bad news, I wanted to know because it was torture to just not know. And it was torture to have to endure the comments from well-meaning friends and family and other moms. Like, I got the worst quote unquote advice and comments from them about, you know, just relax, go do yoga, like go on a vacation holiday. It's like this is so insulting, and there's no actually like sign, there's no scientific evidence that you know, our this level of stress is what is responsible for my miscarriages. And it puts the responsibility then on me, like I'm doing something. I just find this so insulting. And this is what I was going through. So I was really in a dark place. And it was actually, I I switched gynecologists and I started going to this fertility specialist in Orly Kahn. And she was wonderful, wonderful lady. She's she helped me the most. And she said, Have you tried genetic testing to get an answer? And I thought, well, no. For one thing, that's scary because if they give me a bad answer, you can't fix genetics. So there's not, you know, there's no course of medication you can go on if you get bad news with that test. Um, and also it's very expensive here. But she said, and I didn't know this, that if you've gone through every other test and all the results have come back negative, yet you keep having these miscarriages, insurance will pay for it. And I had no idea. And so, because of her, I we did it. Both uh they paid for me, not for my husband, but we paid for my husband's out-of-pocket. And we went to a

Balanced Translocation Changes Everything

Lisa 10:05

genetic um counselor and they they ran the tests. And we were due to go on holiday in Greece. And I told them, do not call me with the results while I'm on holiday, please, whatever you do. Um, so they were like, okay, we'll call you when you get back. So while we were in Greece, I ended up finding out I was pregnant. And this time it was different. I had the darkest lines I'd ever had on pregnancy tests that consistently stayed dark. I had early symptoms. I felt like this is it. This is it. And I came home and I passed the six-week mark, and it was fine. Like, no, no hint of uh no cramps, like nothing indicating that this would end like the other ones had. And then the genetic lab called me and they were like, well, good news and bad news. So they were also testing me for the BCRA gene, I think it's called, because I have uh a lot of breast cancer in my family. And so they were like, Well, we can do the two tests at once if you want to know. And I'm the kind of person I want to know. So they're like, good news, you don't have this cancer gene. Um, bad news, I have a chromosomal abnormality called a balanced translocation, which is pretty rare. It's like one in, I think it's like one in 560 people have this. But it's basically it involves normally two chromosomes. They both um break, but the the points that break off just switch over to the other chromosome. So for example, in my case, I have a balanced translocation between an X chromosome, which is ultra rare, and super unfortunate, because it it makes having a healthy embryo even more unlikely for me. So an X chromosome and a the 16 chromosome. So the part of the X that broke off got fused to the 16, and the part of the 16 that broke off got fused to the X. So that way there's no information missing. That's why I'm, by all appearances, like balanced. I don't have any like Turner syndrome or other disability. Um, but that means that if one of those chromosomes gets transferred to the embryo, it it results in an unbalanced baby, which usually will result in a miscarriage, or if you carry the pregnancy to term a child that has uh disabilities, and that the type of disability depends on which chromosomes were involved. So this was devastating news. And I said, Well, that sucks because I'm pregnant right now. And she was like, Oh shit. Sorry. Um she was like, Well, you're probably going to miscarry. I'm so sorry. Like, please come into our lab like as soon as possible so that we can discuss like next steps. So that was at the beginning of summer, and I basically waited around for a chunk of the summer to miscarry, which I eventually did. I think just before nine weeks, I did. And it was yeah, horrible because it really felt like this is the end of trying because I cannot go through another miscarriage. I'm also too old to keep doing this naturally. Like I just I don't have time and I don't have the emotional capacity to keep having these disappointments.

Christine 14:14

Um with that last one, it's almost like either way is gonna be devastating.

Lisa 14:21

Yeah, and I just I was I really commend women who go through these horrific fertility journeys and in the end just accept being child free. I so wanted to be okay with that, but I just couldn't. Like I really wanted it at this point. And the the more I just really felt like over these years and with every loss, like a carrot was being dangled in front of me, and I just just out of reach, just always out of reach. Um, so the only options then were adoption, which to adopt a child in Switzerland is I mean, it's a good thing that there aren't many children to adopt in Switzerland. That tells you something about the the system. But we also have really, my husband and I have some reservations about international adoption. So, because of that, adoption is just not an option. It could all it's also not a guarantee. It's also a long process, very expensive, and can also end in you know not having a child. So the only other uh possibility

Donor Egg IVF Outside Switzerland

Lisa 15:40

for us was donor eggs.

Julia 15:43

So your husband, everything came back totally clear on both tests.

Lisa 15:48

Totally like excellent on his part. It was just me.

Julia 15:54

That is such a wild thing that these just like scientifically, how how this like works.

Lisa 16:01

Yeah.

Julia 16:01

That the genes are in the wrong place. Does it affect your body? No, yeah, nothing else your body has all the information it needs, it's just not in the right place.

Lisa 16:11

Interesting enough. I I did have low, slightly low ovarian reserve, which my doctor thought was strange. And it turns out now it makes perfect sense because every woman who has a balanced translocation that involves a breakage in an X chromosome goes through early menopause.

Julia 16:32

Oh.

Lisa 16:33

And the early, the earlier the menopause depends on how large the break is. The larger the break, the more severe. So the earlier, like there have been women who've gone into menopause in their teens and 20s. But luckily for me, my X break is very tiny, just the tip of the chromosome. So that could explain the low ovarian reserve results, and probably means I'll have an earlier menopause. But other than that, there is nothing, yeah, there are no, you know, other symptoms of this abnormality.

Julia 17:14

Yeah.

Lisa 17:15

You only sorry.

Christine 17:18

How did you find out about the the egg donation possibility?

Lisa 17:22

Was that something your doctor suggested or um I joined a Facebook support group for balanced translocation? Uh, people who have that. And I a lot of people there do uh if it's the husband that has the translocation, they do sperm donation. If it's the woman, they do egg donation. Just a lot of people do that route. And I knew I wouldn't be a candidate for IVF because that's another option. You could just do IVF with your own eggs and get the get the embryos tested, but I reacted so severely to that low dose of um hormone that they gave me during the ovarian stimulation cycles. I was not willing. I knew that my body wouldn't be able to handle it. And also, not only is it just so expensive and emotionally taxing IVF, it also our odds are so low. It's our odds are so slim. I wanted to have a really good chance of having a healthy child. So yeah, exactly.

Julia 18:25

And if you've had so many miscarriages every single pregnancy and you've been pregnant so many times, then what's the guarantee that you'd go through all of that and end up with any genetically viable embryos?

Lisa 18:37

Exactly.

Julia 18:37

So you're really in a between a rock and a hard place.

Lisa 18:41

Yes. Um, so it's funny because before all of this, if you would have asked me if I would ever consider getting an egg donor, I would have been like, no.

Julia 18:54

It's very abstract.

Lisa 18:55

Yeah, it's not something how like when suddenly that's your only option, it's like a hard yes. Yeah. Like it's the it was the easiest decision for me. Um, that being said, even though it was an easy decision, I really struggled for the duration of my pregnancy and a little bit postpartum with my decision. I had I had such conflicting emotions because let me backtrack. We ended up getting an egg donor in Greece because it's illegal here. Sperm donation is not illegal, you can do that. Egg donation is illegal. Um, so we went Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah. What? Yeah.

Julia 19:52

Yes. I know. My mind is like completely spinning.

Lisa 19:57

I know. And like I've read the arguments about it from the people opposed, and it makes me so angry and just and it also made me feel it added to my like weird conflicting feelings because it did make me feel then like I was doing something immoral and wrong. You know, it's just like if it's illegal here and we have to go to another country, it's just like ah, it just it had this like extra layer of ick feeling for me that I was doing something really taboo and yeah, yeah, but yeah, sperm donation wouldn't be taboo, but even yeah, yeah, not a lot of people know that, but that's how it is here for now.

Julia 20:40

Christina, did you know this?

Lisa 20:41

I didn't know this.

Julia 20:43

Only because of yeah, oh of course, because you of course, you guys, yeah. We'll get to that. And also surrogacy is illegal. Oh, so I knew that. I knew surrogacy was illegal. Um but the yeah, but okay.

Lisa 20:56

I guess I I do understand some of the arguments, like it could lead to exploit exploitation of women in vulnerable situations. You know, they have to go through, you know, IVF is it is very invasive, it's very invasive, and you know, if they're just doing it for money, it's you know, I can I I get it, I get it, but it's on both sides. And another layer of my so in Greece at the time when we were going through this, we chose Greece because Greece is like a second home to us. Um, and I thought if my child can't have my genetics, I at least want her to have the genetics of a people who are like always happy and ready to party and like have a good time. I I love Greek people. I I've never had a bad time in Greece. I love those people, so I want my child then to be half Greek. That's why I absolutely love that reasoning.

Julia 21:52

That's fantastic. That's so beautiful, so beautiful.

Lisa 21:55

So at the time, um Only anonymous donation was legal. Now you can have both. You can choose non-anonymous, where their information gets released when your child turns 18, they have the option to contact. At the time, I wasn't really thinking about this. I didn't really care. I just I wanted, I just time was of the essence for me. Let's just do it without thinking too much about it. But during my pregnancy, I really struggled with this. We got a little bit of information about the donor, just very basic details about her appearance. Not allowed to see a picture, obviously, because it's anonymous. Um basic details about her education, her occupation, her hobbies.

Christine 22:51

And I told you there must be a health screening or something.

Lisa 22:55

Oh, they do that. They do intensive health screenings of all the donors, yes. And in Greece, you're only allowed to donate once to a national couple and once to an international couple. And she had already had a successful pregnancy, apparently, with an a national couple. Whether that led to a successful birth, I don't know, because it just said successful pregnancy. Maybe they're not allowed to say if there was a live birth. Um, but yeah, so and we had to so I'll give you a little information about the timeline. We decided, so I got this horrific news about my translocation and went through this last miscarriage in the summer of 2021. In September of 2021, we had our first virtual consult with the clinic in Greece. And then in November of 2021, we've went there to have all the testing done. They do like, they just do more testing than than they do here. Like they looked at the shape of my uterus, which no doctor here had ever looked at or considered. Um so we got all of our testing done, scans, and went home with a crap load of medications that I had to do. But it was easy. It was it was basically just trying to create the best environment down there before a transfer. So that was November. We got our donor match in March, which I approved immediately. I was not picky about appearance, nothing. I told the clinic, look, you guys know us pretty well at this point. We had a lot of contact. If I if my child can't have my genetics, I at least want her to have the genetics of someone I could see myself being friends with. So please, like, personality is of the utmost importance. And I we we listed the kind of personality traits that we would want in a donor and just the kind of like disposition.

Christine 25:15

That is really beautiful.

Lisa 25:16

Yeah. So and I I really trust that this clinic, they are just the best, the best people. I really believe that they that they did that and that they tried, and yeah.

Christine 25:30

So the medications that you were taking, they didn't have side effects. No, no, not not big ones.

Lisa 25:38

Nothing like what I went through before. No, it was totally easy. Um, so we got the donor match in March, and I had my first transfer in Greece on April 27th. It happened fast. As soon as you approve the donor match, they start her right away on the the process, and then yep. And the first transfer worked, and yeah, and then suddenly I was pregnant.

Julia 26:16

Hi, Julia here. If you're pregnant, preparing for birth, or navigating those intense early weeks with the newborn, I want you to know you can plan for this time with confidence and support. I'm a Zurich-based doula and I support families through pregnancy, birth preparation, and postpartum with services like birth preparation workshops, hypnobirthing plus courses, postpartum massage, and personalized postpartum meal planning designed to help you feel calmer, more confident, and truly cared for during this time. Supporting families in this way isn't just my work, it is truly my passion. I believe this kind of care is part of a quiet revolution, one where parents are supported, listened to, and valued. You can learn more or book with me at juliathedoula.ch, and you'll find me on Instagram at juliathedoula.ch. And now let's get back to this week's Swiss birth story.

Pregnancy Anxiety And Body Symptoms

Christine 27:24

Wow. How was how was it being pregnant? Did you still have some anxiety, some fears?

Lisa 27:31

I felt a lot more peace because I knew there wasn't anything physically wrong. Like there was nothing wrong with my body that I couldn't carry a pregnancy that they could see anyway. The problem was my chromosomes. And because those weren't involved, I was very optimistic. And also I had such intense, strong symptoms right away. I was very sick for the first four months. And I have symptoms constantly. So there was only one time at around the seven-week mark, I had some spotting. I was out with a friend and I went to the toilet and my heart dropped. And you know, my brain, I think I was just so used to expecting the worst and thinking, of course, like nothing can never go right. I right away was like, it's over. It's over, even though it was just a bit of spotting. And so my husband and I went to the hospital to get a check, and we that was the first time we saw the baby's heartbeat. Everything was normal. She showed the area where the bleeding was coming from was not coming from the baby. Yeah. And then after that, I had nothing else. And then as soon as you could start, as soon as I started feeling kicks, they never stopped. They never so she never was not moving.

Christine 28:52

She knew you needed that reassurance.

Lisa 28:54

Yeah, yeah, I think she did. As annoying as it was, it reassured. I had constant reassurance, constant.

Christine 29:03

I'm curious about the care. Like, it's illegal to get the egg donor here, but once you've had it, do you get some sort of like I don't know, funny treatment or quite?

Lisa 29:14

I was like, honestly, I was really paranoid about that. No one, no medical professional ever made me feel bad or weird about it. Not at all. Like I'm pregnant with my baby, and that's it. Yeah.

Julia 29:35

I can just imagine after so many losses, you're and then you get pregnant and you have those four months of nausea. That must have felt so bittersweet. That must have felt I just I just know that like your level, your capacity to handle discomfort is probably extremely high.

Lisa 29:59

Well, we'll get into that with the labor.

Julia 30:03

Oh no, that's a different kind of discomfort. I'm talking pregnancy discomfort right now. Yeah.

Lisa 30:08

And like honestly, I think I had been through so much psychologically, emotionally at this point. Like, yeah, the nausea was horrible. It was terrible, but like I was so grateful for it. And like, and then the funny thing is, I actually hated being pregnant. I never want to be pregnant again. I just don't, I just I had every symptom in the book. Like, as soon as the nausea stopped, I and I entered the second trimester, there was no respite. Like, I developed horrific heartburn and acid reflux, and I tried so many different things. And finally, the only thing that helped, these acid blockers, um, they weren't even offered to me until like much later, until like right before my third trimester. And then the third trimester, so then the acid got better, the heartburn. But then the third trimester, I was so huge. I had gained so much weight, 23 kilograms. I couldn't even hold myself up. And I was just so uncomfortable all the time. And I know anyone who's been pregnant can relate to this. Sleeping was horrendous. Doing anything walking, we had a lot of stairs in our house at the time, and just walking up a small flight of stairs would like wind me. It was, yeah.

Julia 31:40

You know, that feeling of like rolling over in bed like you are a little whale.

Lisa 31:44

Like it's an Olympic sport. Yeah. It's horrible. So I really didn't enjoy being pregnant. I don't regret the fact that I I barely have any pictures of myself pregnant, and I don't care. Like

Doula Support And Birth Plans

Lisa 32:00

for me, pregnancy was just like a means to an end.

Julia 32:04

Um, and then in your in your pregnancy, what kind of preparations did you take to prepare for birth and postpartum? Uh, you can of course talk about how you met Christina.

Lisa 32:16

This is not like Christina was there. She she saw everything. Um, yeah, I had a friend here who went through a traumatic birth and it scared the crap out of me hearing her story. And she said if she could do it all over again, she would have had a doula. And I, you know, I had so much medical anxiety. I was so, I think my brain just rewired itself to always expect the worst. I I wanted all the support I could get. And I my husband is great, especially like under pressure and stressful situations. He's like an ocean of calm. But I knew that wouldn't not even that would be enough for me because he is a first timer too. He's never been in a birthing room. He's never, you know, he's never had to do that. So I started looking up doulas and I I talked with a few. And as soon as I talked to Christina, I knew that was it. And I had to snatch her up.

Julia 33:22

She's she's not saying anything, but yes, Christina, I'm considering your horn-tooted.

Lisa 33:28

I was also always, always terrified of childbirth. And even to the like now, I can't believe I did it. Like, I cannot believe it. Was like really my biggest fear. All throughout my pregnancy, I was worrying about the birth. I couldn't even watch childbirth videos, like seeing a baby being born. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And I still can't. Like, it's just, I don't know. Like, I I really had a fear of what is the pain gonna be like? You know, so much can happen during yeah. So it was that also made it extra important for me to have Christina there.

Julia 34:18

Um, so did you when did you guys meet? The second trimester, third trimester.

Lisa 34:26

Oh my gosh. She wrote it down. She wrote a lovely letter for Nora to read later when she's older about her birth story. Um I feel like no, I was early days. I was still in the first trimester because I wanted to secure her because I knew she was popular. A lot of people recommended her, and I knew I wanted her. So yeah, it was early.

Christine 34:53

Well, especially when you've had such a long journey to get there, you've had a lot of time to think. It's not like, whoa, this is new. I wonder what I should do.

Lisa 35:00

You're yeah, yeah, exactly.

Christine 35:03

Yeah, especially new friends are telling you. Here's what you gotta do.

Lisa 35:07

Yeah, and needless to say, because of my strong um health anxiety, I wanted, I knew I wanted a hospital berth. I just could, yeah, I just wanted to be where all the equipment was. And you know, if something were to go wrong, I don't want to have to be transported. I want to be like there in the place. So I I opted for the winter tour spital. They have a renovated, what do you call it, birthing department floor, yeah, where every room is private. Like even if you don't pay for that, it's just a room with one bed. And the great thing is that my husband could be there too. And he he was never not by my side. I ended up being induced, which is a whole nother story.

Julia 36:02

Which we can get into. It's fine. This can

Induction Decision At 39 Weeks

Julia 36:05

be as long of an episode as you want, whatever you want to share.

Lisa 36:08

Yeah, I'll try to like make this one quick. But basically, everything in the pregnancy was going well, no concerns, until um I I was measured at my gynecologist in Ooster, and she measured that the that my daughter's abdomen was abnormally large. And not like severely, but just the measurement was bigger than they wanted to see. And that could be nothing, or it could be that there's a blockage in there, which like scared me, obviously. And I think this was around, I wish I could remember when the first measurement was like 35 weeks, maybe 36. Um, when they noticed this. And then I had a second opinion done at the hospital in winter tour by one of the doctors' midwives, and she measured the same thing, the same result. And then some weeks, some time later, I had another checkup at the hospital where they measured again a different person, same result. So they were like, we really would like to induce you at 39 weeks instead of you know waiting till 40 weeks. And I thought, okay, one week earlier. That's not a big deal. Um and I trusted them. And it's funny because Christina told me, as did other women, um, don't trust their measurements. They're not 100% correct. But the thing is, I had two different locations and three different people all get the same results.

Christine 37:54

So I it wasn't just hey, you have a big baby, which is what we hear a lot, right? But it's the proportions that the abdomen was bigger.

Lisa 38:03

It was scary. Yeah, and I didn't, you know, and I kind of feel like I was relaxed about the health of my baby up until this point. And then my brain did that thing again where I'm like, well, of course, nothing can go right for me. Of course, like this is it. She's gonna need a stomach surgery when she gets out. Like, this is what I was thinking. So I I wanted to trust the doctor, so I said, okay, induce me. So we went in for the induction on um wrote it down on the 4th of January. Yes. They tried to do it mechanically with the Foley balloon that completely failed. Like she couldn't even get it in all the way, and I was screaming. It was so painful. I had to beg her to take it out, and she was like, okay, this is not gonna work. Um, so the original idea was that I would get the Foley balloon put in, then go home for the night, and then the next day come back to the hospital. This freaked me out. I thought as soon as I have this thing in me, I want to like, I don't want to go home. Like, I'm terrified of what if I go into labor? And I myself was born at home. I came out so fast that I was born in my parents' bed. And this was like a huge fear of mine. So I was relieved when she was like, okay, we're gonna do the what's it called?

Christine 39:34

The the miso miso prostol.

Lisa 39:39

Yeah, the tampon thing and the pitocin. But that means you have to come back, go home, pack a bag, come back this afternoon, we're admitting you, and then you just stay. It could take up to like four days. Like we don't know how long it could take. And I was like, oh great, at least I'll be in the hospital. Um, but it was kind of like shocking because I did not, when we were going to the hospital that morning to try the Foley balloon, I did not expect that then I was from that day gonna be in the hospital. But that's what happened. Um, so they started me on the other methods, and we had one glorious night of just waiting and watching movies in the hospital room, and that was like our last night of happy freedom and ignorant bliss.

Julia 40:34

And your and your husband could stay with you the whole time because of the weight. That's it's really nice. Actually, amazing. That's great that you had that night together. I love that of bliss. What did you call it? Ignorant bliss. They started on the the mesoprostal pills every four to six hours, I'm guessing.

Lisa 40:58

I feel like it was that, I honestly can't remember, but yeah, it was about every four hours.

Julia 41:03

And then a prostic land and gel pessary as well, the tampon thing.

Lisa 41:07

Yes, yes, yeah. So I so yeah, we had that wonderful night. And then the next day, I think it was like around dinner time. My husband

Intense Labour And Pain Relief

Lisa 41:20

went out because he wanted to get some things from home. And as soon as he left, my water broke. And I gosh, I was sitting on the toilet, and I literally heard like a pop. It's the weirdest thing, and it just all poured out. And I called him and I was like, You have to come back, my water broke, as if it's like the movies, because this is in my brain, this is what's gonna happen. It's like in the movies, my water breaks, the baby's coming now. Like, you have to come. Um, it wasn't like that. So my water broke, I think. Oh gosh, I wish I could remember the timeline exactly. But it was late that night. I started getting not just like a little contractions, but horrific, I'm on the floor, don't touch me contractions. And that was shocking. That was scary. Um, I've heard that this could happen with inductions, so I shouldn't have been surprised, but I really was shocked at the level of pain. They had already started running me a bath on another floor of the hospital, and they were setting up because I wanted to labor in water. And then they came down and I was on the floor, and I was like, don't touch me. Like, don't move me. And they were like, It's okay, we can like put you in, like, go in the wheelchair and we'll wheel you up there. I was like, I'm not getting in water. No, sorry, you ran that bath. I feel really bad, but drain it, I'm not moving from this room. Um, so yeah, I called, I told Philip to call Christina. I felt again, like I felt so bad that she was getting a phone call at 2 45 in the morning. But I needed her, like shit was hitting the fan. That's what does that do in my life. Yes. Yeah, I was and I felt so bad, but she's an angel, she came. Also, I was paying her to come, so still I felt bad. Um around 4 a.m. I couldn't take it anymore, and I asked for an epidural, and it worked for a while. I don't know for how long it worked, and then it didn't. And then they tried again, nothing worked. Nothing, not even fentanyl worked. Like the pain was so unbelievable. And I kept wanting them to check me like how dilated am I? Because I must be at a 10 now. Like, this is so crazy. I can't take more pain than this. And they'd be like, oh, you're at like five. And I just remember feeling I did what you're not supposed to do. I panicked because I thought they've given me, they've tried everything to reduce my pain and nothing is working. So I guess I'm just gonna die. I guess I'm gonna die. Like this is how it ends. Like I couldn't even breathe. I had no rest between contractions because it was just constant pain and the vomiting, and oh my God, like they kept making me change positions, which I understand why it was important to, but I wanted to kill them every time because every time I would move, it would trigger a contraction. And I had to move constantly from being on my side with the peanut ball thing to on all fours to like up uh like kind of being, I don't know, like holding on to the back of the bed on my knees, and just like these and having all these cords around me. And I was so thirsty, but it just all the cords getting in your way, and you're gonna be like, Oh my god. And I just remember having a cup of water with a straw next to me because uh, but then not being able to drink because of the contractions. It was really, it was a nightmare. And then they were like, Okay, we're gonna call. I mean, hours had gone by at this point. Um, they were like, we're gonna call the anesthesiologist, he's gonna come. I remember so clearly it felt like it was taking him forever. And I was so angry. Like, where is he? Like, come on, don't you see I'm dying here? And he finally came, and I just remember begging him, like, there has to be something you can do. Please help me. Please help me. Um, so that's when he gave me the happy button, which is that fun little button that you press when a contraction is starting, and it just takes the edge off. It doesn't make the pain go away, but it takes the edge off so that you can breathe. So Philip had the button, and I would tell him when a contraction was coming button, button, button push the button.

Christine 46:31

Hi, I'm Christina, Adula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lily Bee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community, and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village. Find yours here.

Lisa 46:54

So the the contraction started late at night the previous night. I didn't give birth to Nora until 6:30 p.m. the next day. So we went an entire day basically. I was screaming. And I just so much of that time is blurry to me, but I very vividly remember feeling embarrassed that I was being too loud. And I remember asking the midwives, how soundproofed are these rooms? Like, am I bothering my neighbors next to me? Can people in the hallway hear me? Like, I'm in the throes of labor and in so much pain, yet I'm still thinking that I'm like bothering people in a burden. I was like apologizing to my husband and to Christina that, like, oh, you must be so tired, you must be hungry. I'm so sorry. Like, I'm so so ridiculous.

Julia 47:52

It's just, it's just crazy hearing you say how much how much this sort of good girl archetype, when it can come out, how it comes out, how it can. I mean, that totally stops your flow. Yeah. Right? Like the thinking about being a burden. And I just feel so much for you, but I'm grateful that you're saying it because you're certain you're not the only one who has these big feelings coming up because you're in a really long labor of a super intense labor, and we're taught our whole lives to be neat and tidy and not bother other people. And all when all of that comes up in our most vulnerable moments, I just really feel for you and for anyone in that situation.

Lisa 48:44

Yeah.

Vacuum Birth And Newborn Support

Lisa 48:46

Yeah. And so I started pushing. I I felt like the strongest urge to push around 230. I was just like constantly pushing. It was just like, and it just felt like, how am I pushing so hard and for so long? And this kid is still not out. Like, how is this possible? Um, and then it was shortly before 6 30 that the doctor, she was so sweet, and she was like, Okay, um, you're doing great, but there was a little part of my the opening that was just not the cervix that was not getting big enough. So, is it okay if we use the vacuum? And I was like, Are you seriously asking me that? Like, yes. Like, why didn't you do this before? Like, couldn't you have just sucked her out from the beginning and I wouldn't have had to go through this? Like, are you kidding me? Do it. Um, and I'll never forget, I did not expect the vacuum to be so loud. It really surprised me. It was so loud when she turned that thing on, and it was very brief, like like a zit zit, like just a two-second thing. That's all she needed. Um, but I remember feeling so bad for my baby because that was attached to her head and it was so loud. And I was thinking, is she gonna be deaf? Like this is crazy. And I remember, you know, when it was at the end and the horrific ring of fire, the burning, and I had my legs up and the doctor's face was there, and the lights were so bright, and again, I felt so bad for my baby that she's gonna be like blinded coming out. You know, it's just not a nice, it's not a nice entrance to the world.

Christine 50:40

Deafening sound and bright lights.

Lisa 50:43

Yeah, it's horrible, but I mean, that's how it was. So and then she was out, then she was out, and Christina was so lovely. I didn't even know she was doing this at the time. She had my phone and she took it's like a two-minute-long video of Nora being placed on my chest, my husband and I losing it, and just that moment, and it's been almost three years, and I still haven't been able to watch the video. I still have not watched it. I see the little thumbnail on my phone, and I've I I don't I don't even know what is stopping me because it did take me a long time to get over the trauma of that labor and birth. It took me a very long time. I feel like I'm over it, yet I can't bring myself to watch that because I don't want to be transported. It's it's both a beautiful moment and terrible at the same time. And it's just, I don't want to be transported back there. But I'm grateful that I have the video. One day I will look at it. Just not now.

Julia 51:57

Yeah, it's there. And I'm grateful that it's there for you. But there, there is, you know, you can hide it as well, right? So you can you can hide it if you don't want to look at it for a few months, right? And it goes to like uh hidden albums or something like that, if you have an iPhone. And I think that that's okay, and that's uh completely understandable listening to this story. I think it's completely understandable that you that you right now still can't watch it.

Lisa 52:27

Yeah, so she came out looking like a little gray alien. Um in the movies they're always like, the baby's not crying, they're not crying, there's something wrong. And then it's uh and Nora was not crying yet. I might I was just in so much shock. And I thought, well, she's looking at me like she had these huge eyes, and she was just looking at me. She seemed fine, but yeah, she was having trouble breathing on her own. So they took her over to the table next to us, and then they had to call. Um, they had to ring the very scary loud siren, which I was warned about ahead of time, to get because they were calling a doctor who wasn't answering the call. So that's the only way they could get the doctor's attention to like hurry up and come here. So they took her away to the Neonatal to get some oxygen support. It wasn't critical. And to be honest, like I I very clearly remember not being scared for her. I knew that the doctors, I trusted them. It's very, I know it does happen that babies die here in hospitals after birth. It does happen, but it's so unlikely. It's so rare. I knew she was gonna be fine, and she was. I made my husband go with her. My placenta was not coming out. So they told me I'd have to have a 15 to 20 minute surgery to get it out. And they asked me, do you want to be under like twilight mode or do you want us to knock you out? And I was like, for the love of God, knock me out. Like after what I just went through, knock me out. So could Christina come with you? Um, I don't know where Christina went. Christina, where did you go?

Christine 54:19

No, I had to wait.

Lisa 54:20

Yeah. Okay. Um, so I woke up from my little procedure, and I remember right away asking what time it was. And I did the math in my head, and I thought, oh, how did two and a half hours go by? Yeah. And they were like, Yes, you hemorrhaged. So I lost three liters of blood in that um placenta surgery. So I was alone on a bed in like a little room recovering from that, attached to so many things. I remember dying of thirst. I was so thirsty, like I've never been ever before in my whole life. And I wasn't allowed to drink anything because uh they were I had to have blood transfusions and they were filling me with fluids, and they were afraid of, you know, like water toxicity, obviously. So I couldn't, I was only allowed a little sip here and there. It was torture. It was torture, and I was driving the nurse crazy. I was driving her nuts. Yeah. And Philip came at some point when I was awake, and he showed me pictures of Nora that he had taken, and he did the chest to chest with her, and he was already totally in love with her. Yeah.

Julia 55:46

And she was she doing okay at this point?

Lisa 55:48

Yeah, she was.

Julia 55:49

She was fine. Did he know about you? Like, did did how were they keeping him updated? Was there any information for him?

Lisa 55:57

Um, well, Chris, I just read this in Christina's letter that after gosh, how much time? It was after like an hour and a half or something, they finally they they told him, well, they they saw like medical staff running back and forth, and they knew it was taking longer. And then someone informed them that I had lost a lot of blood, but I was stable. But it took a while, it took a while.

Christine 56:31

Yeah, he was very worried, and I'm trying to reassure him, even though I'm like, this is not normal, so it's fine, I'm sure they'll yeah.

Lisa 56:42

So my I ended up being in the hospital in total, including the night before the labor, before the birth, I was in there a total of nine days because the recovery was just horrific. I couldn't sit up for like three days. I couldn't, oh my god, it was horrible. I was white as a sheet from the blood loss. I had really low blood pressure. Just the simplest motion of like going to the toilet made me so dizzy. I needed someone with me all the time, and I'm so grateful Philip was able to be there all the time.

Christine 57:27

So he and Nora stayed with you. Did you have a room three?

Lisa 57:32

They brought Nora. So Nora had to stay for two nights. They wanted to uh uh to keep her there two nights in the Neo Natal, and then they brought her in. And thank God for Philip that he was so like keen and in love with her because for that time I was in the hospital, he took care of her. Yeah, I was even scared to hold her because I was so weak. So yeah,

Recovery, Feeding Guilt, And Bonding

Lisa 58:00

he did, he was, yeah, he did everything.

Julia 58:06

Um were you were you given a pump? Was that even on the table?

Lisa 58:13

Yeah, so they gave me a pump. It was really intimidating to start, you know. I just felt like can I get time to rest? No, like we gotta get the milk flowing. And because of the enormous blood loss, I never the milk never fully came. I could get like a bit, so I looking back, I can't believe I did this.

Julia 58:38

But for six months, I was doing pumping, breastfeeding, and formula a lot is a long time to be triple feeding.

Lisa 58:49

That is but the guilt, the guilt was so intense, and I had guilt about accepting the induction because I thought, you know, if not for the induction, because I mean, it happens a lot in inductions that the placenta doesn't come out, and you know, yeah, it's like a cascade of interventions, not always, but the data's there. And so I had a lot of guilt. Oh, and by the way, she came out, her abdomen was totally fine. This is the icing on the cake, this is the cherry on top. There was nothing wrong with her. Her the measurements were totally wrong. And so this was the moment that both Philip and I were just overcome by anger. And I've never I never see Philip get angry. He was so angry at our doctor, and he said, like, how could you all have gotten this so wrong? And she was like, honestly, I don't know.

Christine 59:52

Because that, I mean, that's such a reasonable, you know, three different people, like you said, had seen it in two different locations.

Lisa 59:59

Yeah. To this day, I don't know how they got it so wrong. I didn't need the induction. We can't know the alternative scenarios because they never happened. You can't say that it would have been like an easy birth and like blah, blah, blah. I would have been you don't know because it didn't happen. And it will drive me crazy if I ruminate this way. Um, but yeah, I really struggled for a long time postpartum with the anger and the guilt that I had listened to them and had the induction. And, you know, maybe if I hadn't had that, um, I wouldn't have had this traumatic labor. Um, she would have come out breathing fine. I wouldn't have had to have placental surgery and hemorrhaged. I would have then had milk come in normally, and I would have been able to breastfeed her. You know, it's just like it's a lot. It's a lot. And then I was still struggling with the the donor conception side of it too. And I was I was struggling at the beginning to connect with Nora and to feel, and but I think a lot of mothers have this regardless of the cons if they're you know genetically theirs or not. Um, but I kept thinking like, oh my god, is it because she's not like genetically mine that I'm not feeling, you know, it's just it was just like a roller coaster of emotions, and not and also being like deliriously happy.

Christine 1:01:39

Yeah, and there's so many factors. And when you're separated, when you first of all, when you've had such a long and traumatic birth, yeah, and then that immediate surgery with blood loss, and like that's a rough start for anybody. So that and and being separated from her in the beginning, there's yeah, there's a lot of factors. Yes, it was messy, yeah. Do you remember because you are very connected with her now. Um, do you remember a point where that kind of switched, or was it very gradual?

Lisa 1:02:13

I think it was I think it was when we came home, and she was never a child who could sleep easily on her own. So I never thought I would be a co-sleeping parent, but I became that very quickly. And she she couldn't even nap unless she was on me.

Julia 1:02:31

And that's I think when I started my obsession with her started just having her always on me because she was obsessed with you, like yeah, you know, it was like neutral saying, You are my mom, you are my person, I feel safest with you, yeah. And then I think it's so beautiful that you could feel that way about her, like you know, and that's just and she was reassuring you, like, yeah, I might not genetically be yours, but and our start was pretty awful, yeah, but you are where I feel safe, and that is so amazing that you could connect with that. Because imagine if you just if everyone around you was telling you, no, you must fight against that, right? You must put her down, you must swaddle her tightly, you must do all of this. How trauma, how much that continues your trauma. Yes. Yeah.

Lisa 1:03:33

Yeah. Even then when she cries in the night, I can't ignore it. Like it it triggers this, like such this oh strong feeling in me that I need I need this connection is so strong, like I need to be with her. I cannot, yeah. We have a very strong bond. We took her back to Greece, by the way, when she was four months. We took her back to the clinic to meet all the doctors and to meet our hero, her embryologist, because he's really the one responsible for making her. And that was really sweet.

Julia 1:04:17

And you can have a nice holiday full filled with happy people.

Lisa 1:04:21

Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

Christine 1:04:23

I wonder how often they get to meet the product of their work.

Lisa 1:04:27

Not often. Not often, because the most of their patients are coming from, you know, they have a lot from Australia, the US, Canada. So it's yeah.

Julia 1:04:38

Wow, an insight into the logistics of that would be utterly fascinating.

Lisa 1:04:43

Yeah, that could be a whole different podcast series. 100%. Yes.

Julia 1:04:48

Man. Um, so like if we could just rewind to the six months of triple feeding, and some lactation consultants they aptly name it quadruple feeding, because your breast pump, pumped milk, yeah, bottles. So you've got a pump to clean, bottles to clean. In the first few months, you're sterilizing or a few weeks, however long it was for you. Your feedings are minimum, what like one to three hours apart. Yeah, yeah. But the process takes 45 to 90 minutes. Well, it's a full-time and then the cleaning, and then you've got to eat.

Lisa 1:05:26

It's a full-time job.

Julia 1:05:27

It is a hundred percent a full-time job, but you've also got to look after her. Yes. Um, and six months, I actually feel really upset for you that you were kind of abandoned by care providers. Your gynecologist shouldn't have let that happen, your postpartum midwife shouldn't have let that happen. No one should be in that kind of torture.

Lisa 1:05:50

Yeah.

Julia 1:05:50

And I don't say that lightly.

Lisa 1:05:52

I was told, um, yeah, if you want to do it, go for it. And I remember thinking, well, I don't want it, but I have. This immense guilt if I don't, this feeling of guilt.

Julia 1:06:04

I feel like I I have to, and no one conception wasn't easy, pregnancy wasn't easy, birth wasn't easy. Give me something, yeah, right? Yeah, that's really completely and utterly unfair. What um were you supported at all when that stopped? When you were like six months, this is enough, or how did that transition go?

Lisa 1:06:28

No, I don't, I don't recall. No, because she was already mostly on formula and the bottle.

Julia 1:06:36

Yeah.

Lisa 1:06:37

Um, my milk was like, it was just so inconsistent and small amounts, and just I actually started leading up to the six months. I was doing it less and less because I was just tired.

Julia 1:06:51

Yeah.

Lisa 1:06:52

So I wasn't then producing as much anyway. And funny enough, we were on holiday in Greece when I decided to stop. I had packed the pump, everything, and then midway through our holiday, I was like, I'm done, not doing this anymore.

Julia 1:07:07

Yeah. Congratulations. But I know that that must have been really hard. But like it had to it had to stop. It was emotional.

Lisa 1:07:13

It was emotional, but it had to stop.

Julia 1:07:17

Yeah. And she's so, I mean, I've met her, she's so healthy, she's happy. Yeah. Um, but that doesn't stop the fact that that whole experience was deeply unfair for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How else was your support system? Sorry, postpartum. How else was that? How else was your support system postpartum? Were you um your husband's family is from this country or from far away?

Lisa 1:07:46

We live really close. Well, before we were just in like the next town over, and now we live side by side with his whole family. Um, I I don't remember feeling overwhelmed by like, you know, having to do it all alone. I do, I did really struggle with asking for help. I still do. I still really yeah, cannot ask for help. That's um, but that's on me.

Julia 1:08:15

It's not just you.

Lisa 1:08:16

Yeah.

Christine 1:08:18

I was gonna ask how your um physical recovery was after the surgery and everything after coming home from the hospital. Yeah.

Lisa 1:08:25

I have to say, I was really surprised at how quickly I bounced back physically, like shocked. I, you know, they have these ice um panty liner things that you can wear. I didn't, they kept giving them to me, but I didn't need them. I had no pain down there. I, you know, once the blood transfusion, when once my like blood pressure stabilized and the swelling went down, I actually felt really normal, which was shocking. And I'm glad because mentally I was not okay. So if I had to be like physically in agony and mentally that would not have been good. Um, so yeah, I feel like I got some relief that way. Physically, it was yeah, fine.

Christine 1:09:19

What was the what was the process mentally afterwards? What kind of support did you find?

Lisa 1:09:24

I I was going to I anyway was going to a therapist before, like even before pregnancy, because of all the miscarriages, and especially since my balanced translocation diagnosis, because I really went into a depression with that. Um so I had been seeing the same therapist all the way through, through the decision to do donor eggs, through the pregnancy, and then post-pregnancy as well. So I had her. Um but I I really think that just time, as cliche as it is, like time healed a lot, especially the anger bit. Like I really when it's yeah, like when it's not so fresh, it doesn't sting as hard. So therapy, therapy and time and antidepressants, yeah.

Julia 1:10:22

And you grow around the experience, yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's still a part of you, but you and your motherhood and your experience in life kind of grows around so that's the story of Nora.

Christine 1:10:43

And we're all glad she's here.

Julia 1:10:45

Yes, we are, and of and of Lisa, it's also your story.

Lisa 1:10:49

Yes, yeah, and I I have to say I'm I'm very proud of myself. I would never do it again, but I'm proud of myself for doing that, and yeah.

Christine 1:11:02

Because that was a long, a long journey. A lot of times you could have you know ducked out and said no to nothing. Thanks. That's enough.

Lisa 1:11:09

Yes,

Her Most Brilliant Moment

Lisa 1:11:10

uh, many, many, many times.

Christine 1:11:12

Yep. That leads us very nicely, actually, into our last question. Um, which is out of the whole journey, what would you say was your most brilliant moment?

Lisa 1:11:27

Oh my gosh. My most brilliant moment. As in as in the happiest one for me.

Julia 1:11:38

No, just what you look back and you're like, wow, that was beautiful. That was a moment of brilliance.

Christine 1:11:49

It's hard. It is, it's it's a big question, and I'm sure there are many answers, but honestly the preg getting the positive pregnancy test, and I tested early.

Lisa 1:12:03

I tested before I was supposed to. I peed on a stick. I was actually alone in Bern at the time. I was working an expo and I was staying in an Airbnb with this gay couple, and I came running out of their bathroom holding the pee stick, and I was like, oh no, man. And then they were like, okay, and I was like, wait, backstory. And then they were like super like I'm so happy for me. Um I think that, yeah, like peeing on that stick too early, expecting either no line or just something very faint, and I got an immediate strong dark line, and I just knew. I just knew.

Julia 1:12:41

Yeah, all that work, all that work to get her, and you knew that that was her.

Lisa 1:12:46

I knew it. I knew it. Yep. Thank you.

Christine 1:12:50

So beautiful.

Lisa 1:12:52

Yeah, and I couldn't get a hold of Philip at the time because he was actually windsurfing in um Greece. We were like, it's a long story, I'm not gonna tell it, but we were in two different places at the time, and I called him, he didn't answer, so then I told literally everyone else, and then he found out.

Julia 1:13:09

He was the last to know. Yeah, I couldn't hold it up.

Christine 1:13:13

Cannot be contained.

Julia 1:13:14

No, all gorgeous.

Christine 1:13:16

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

Lisa 1:13:23

I'm happy to share, and um yeah, I hope I can help other women, especially those going through infertility or using donor egg, embryo, or sperm. There are quite a few of us out there in Switzerland. I've met them.

Christine 1:13:43

Yes, they do exist. And those in the future will be very happy to have your your story, your resources.

Speaker 3 1:13:53

Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.

Closing Thanks And Ways To Connect

Julia 1:14:01

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow. So please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents to be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. And be sure to follow us on social media at SwissBirth Stories for even more tips, resources, and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses, and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, and birth stories too. So feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, SwissBirthstories.com, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning, and keep connecting with each other.