Swiss Birth Stories
Our mission is to share diverse birth stories from across Switzerland in a way that empowers the storyteller. We aim to create a supportive space where each person is in control of their own narrative. By recording and sharing birth stories in Switzerland, we hope to inspire those planning their own birth, offer insights for birth workers, or allow listeners to reflect on their own birth experiences. Tune in to hear real, personal, raw birth stories. Available on all major podcast platforms. This podcast is in seasons; during an active season, episodes will be released weekly.
Swiss Birth Stories
S02E12 Andrea: What If Your Second Birth Rewrites Your First? How A Fast First Labour, Postpartum Hemorrhage, And Hashimoto’s Led To An Empowered Second Birth
Andrea's resources are below this description.
A birth can change your life. Two births can change your map. Andrea, a teacher and author living in Lenzburg, opens up about a first labour that moved faster than anyone expected, a cramped exam room at Hirslanden Aargau standing in for a delivery suite, and the cascade that followed: retained placenta, agonising uterine compression, a major postpartum hemorrhage, and surgery during the height of pandemic restrictions. With her partner sent home and information scarce, recovery stretched into a week in hospital and months of fatigue, anxiety, rage, and insomnia. Therapy named postpartum depression. Bloodwork finally revealed Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, connecting dots and restoring stability with the right medication.
The second time, Andrea did more than hope; she prepared. Counselling helped process trauma. A clear plan flagged her prior PPH, requested the delivery suite, and lined up colostrum in case of separation. Her partner trained to advocate. Friends handled the midnight drive. Rest, snacks, an acupressure comb, and warm water carried her through. In the quiet between surges, she felt her son’s head, waited, and delivered him into her arms in a peaceful water birth. He surprised everyone at nearly 4.5 kilos, and the placenta followed smoothly out of the tub, with a blissful first latch to seal the moment.
We talk about birth trauma in Switzerland, trauma-informed care, postpartum mental health, thyroid health after birth, building a real support network, and why postpartum rest is part of recovery, not a luxury. Andrea’s story is a reminder that healing doesn’t erase what happened; it gives you a new chapter to hold it with care.
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Andrea's resources:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51290494-why-did-no-one-tell-me-this - a book I found at the local Orell Füssli and was very glad I read! My husband even referred to it while I was in labour.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BridgetTeyler - the one and only YouTube channel I used during pregnancy and postpartum.
https://www.thenakeddoula.com/ - I found her visuals to be striking and memorable. The flashcards helped my husband and I prepare for the birth, and I also made my birth plan using her visuals.
https://www.born-together.com/ - counselling with Francesca helped me process the trauma of my first birth story and prepare for the birth of my second child, which turned out to be a truly healing experience. We also had one couples counselling session.
https://www.thewavecomb.co.uk/ - I used the wave comb and water to help me have an unmedicated birthing experience and feel in control.
podcast: The Great Birth Rebellion (we love this one too)
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Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach, and trainee doula.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. Today we're talking to Andrea, a teacher, author, and mom of two from Lenzburg, Switzerland. She shares a deeply personal journey through two very different births. Her first birth unfolded so quickly she gave birth in a small exam room, followed by major complications, surgery, and a difficult recovery all during the isolation of the pandemic. Deciding to have a second child wasn't easy, but with the right support, Andrea experienced a healing, empowering water birth. Don't miss this powerful episode. Hello, Andrea. Thank you so much for joining us. We'd love to start out just to hear a little bit about you and your family, where you're from, what brought you here.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I'll give you the short story. So, yeah, my name's Andrea. I live in Lensburg and Kanton Argo. My husband is from Bern. That's the short story of why I'm in Switzerland. I've been here for eight years and have two kids. We were both born here. They will be two and five next month. So yeah, I'm also working 80% as a teacher and an author for a local educational publisher. And yeah, so it's a busy life with two jobs and two kids. But the short story of why I came here was for love. That's an excellent reason.
SPEAKER_02:So welcome. Could you tell us a little bit then about your journey to pregnancy, how you um knew it was right for you and your partner to start a family, and how that went.
SPEAKER_01:Oh well, that took us a long time to get to that stage, just in our thoughts, just that we feel we're ready to start a family. We we had a long-distance relationship for quite some time, uh for four years or so. And uh then we've been together for 15 years now. So um I think about three years after we were married, it was sort of like, okay, yeah, let's think about it and start trying. And we were really lucky that it didn't take us long. On the one hand, we felt really lucky, okay. Wow, because it it's not um always so easy for everybody. And on the other hand, we were kind of shocked. Okay, we're doing this, we're becoming parents, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Don't know if we're ready for that, but you know, it's like Yeah, that feeling can kick can hit you really off guard when you you hear all these words and you expect, okay, it will take at least X amount of time. And then if it happens quickly, you think, oh, okay, now it's it's really real, and we didn't have that sort of extra buffer zone to really um prepare for it like we had anticipated.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, it was a bit of a shock in the beginning, and but I was also quite lucky with that, with the first pregnancy. Um, just I I had very minor issues with nausea and stuff like that in the beginning, but then I felt great in the in a second trimester. For I'll talk a little bit more about the pregnancy afterwards, but for the second one, I it was a bit more of a journey. Um, and I think it'll be easier to understand why, as I explain how it went with the birth and everything, that it took us longer to come around to the idea to having a second child. Although we always wanted more than one, it was not as easy as a decision to try to get pregnant again as we thought it might have been.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so that took more thought, that took more preparation, that took really conscious decision making. And again, we were very, very lucky the way it worked out, getting pregnant a second time. Um, but yeah, that's that was the journey to uh to pregnancy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I love how you talk about the second trimester energy burst. They can it can be really, really nice.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. The first pregnancy I felt amazing, like so womanly. Like I finally had like proper boobs. I was really so feeling great. Like I didn't expect that actually.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think for a lot of women, pregnancy can be the first time where they feel body positivity. And um, or one of the more stronger times in their life where they can really feel um feel that way. And and I and I wish I wish that on so many moms.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, and I I I would like to I would like to say that should stay as well, postpartum, because then it gets more difficult to retain that kind of body body positivity. But I really loved um the feeling whenever I was pregnant the first time. It was it was so fascinating to me that I was growing this tiny human and in the early days, you couldn't you couldn't feel anything. It just seems so surreal to see the little baby moving around on the ultrasine. That's insane that this little human is growing inside me, and I can't even feel I didn't know if it was a boy or a girl either. Decided to leave that just as a mystery. My first test of me as a parent, if I had the patience to find out on once the baby was born. I I just felt like I wanted that to be a surprise. In the end, it didn't even matter, actually. That was also the funny thing. Didn't even think to ask the first moments, but it was just the wonderful feeling of growing this tiny human and feeling those little flutters and the belly, the bump. I had a massive bump. Really. It was and it was it was summer. I was heavily pregnant at the height of summer. Two summers. I only have summer babies, which it has its it has its pros and cons, but I was so uncomfortable towards the end. It was sort of like it's way too hot. Like if you're pregnant at this time of the year into summer, it it's it's uncomfortable. I had the compression stockings, yes. Uh, those were a struggle. Yeah. But yeah, not the worst thing in the world, but gosh, I remember struggling with those.
SPEAKER_03:I I feel for for pregnant women when it's this hot out and normal people are suffering, and then you just have that extra little body heater.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then they're a little newborn and they are little radiators, you know. They're you're carrying them around and you're sweating like profusely. Yes, it's really. Yeah, but again, then you don't have to worry about bundling them all up to get them out the door in the winter and stuff. And yeah, so they're sort of pros and cons.
SPEAKER_03:As with everything, yeah. Okay, so the pregnancy, the first one at least, was a very overall positive experience. How could you how could you tell that things were starting when it came time to give birth?
SPEAKER_01:Um, actually didn't. That was a funny story because I'd read a lot about the birth and everything. I'd gone to these um classes, the only ones available at the time because COVID hit. I was pregnant um in 2020. Um, and it was really the start of the pandemic. It was a pretty crazy time. And um I'd started to go to these pregnancy swimming classes and I loved them. I only got to go to one, and then they were cancelled. Thank you, pandemic. Um, and then I went to the only birthing prep classes that there were. And so, you know, in theory, I kind of had an idea of okay, there are going to be these contractions. I'd had a lot of bracks and hicks. The I'd say probably the last two months of pregnancy. Um, and it felt like my body was preparing for something and also telling me to slow down because I'm terrible at doing that. I'm always on the go. I was riding my bike whenever I was pregnant. My gynecologist was like, Did you cycle here? And I'm like, Yeah. And he's like, Don't do that. But it felt easier than than walking because like I had this huge bump. It was summer, it was uncomfortable. So I'd hop on the bike and cycle, and it was easier to get around. And that's, I feel like that's also so Swiss, you know. That's something I would never have done in my home country in Northern Ireland. I wouldn't have been cycling around heavily pregnant. No way. Um, but the the early signs of labor, I I wasn't sure if it was just more Braxton Hicks. So I just went about my day as usual. And I had an appointment in Otto. Um, I was doing acupuncture the last four weeks of pregnancy, a weekly acupuncture as a preparation for birth. And I'd just I'd been to the acupuncture appointment that day. I sort of felt myself as I was coming back, being like, oh, I'm gonna have to stop here. And that's stopping me in my tracks. And I thought it was just really strong, Braxton Hicks.
SPEAKER_03:Are you still doing it at this point?
SPEAKER_01:That day I I got the train back to Lentsburg and I cycled home, yeah. Cycled from the train station. It's only five minutes on the bike. Yeah. But again, then I was on the bike and having Braxton Hicks or actual maybe Libra early Libra contractions, not realizing that's what it was. And it made me stop. And I think that was looking back now, that was obviously the sign because I had to stop, you know. Um, and got home, my husband was working from home pandemic all the whole time. And then realized I was on the phone to a friend, and it really felt like I was in an episode of Friends where I had to tell her, I have to go now. I think there's a strong one coming. I like, I think I might actually be in actual labor now. I couldn't eat dinner. It's like, okay, I need to manage this now. I'm I need to I need to get in the bath. Um, and so I had I had so many ways. I was just like walking around and I was swaying and I was in the bath for quite some time. Um, and started sort of using a timer or something, some sort of app, I think we had to time the contractions while my husband was tying up loose ends with his work stuff and looking back and thinking, yeah, he was still on his laptop working and I was in labor. It really took us by surprise, I guess. And also how fast it went, because then the timer app, whatever it was, um, I think it was called contractions or something, told us it was time to go to the hospital. Yeah. And called the hospital. They said, if you're comfortable enough, you can stay at home a little bit longer. And it's like, yeah, I'm okay. I'm doing okay. Stayed at home a little bit longer. And then the app was like, you definitely need to go to the hospital now. And good that it gave us that a little tip because it was time. It was definitely time. We couldn't have left it any later. Um, we had to get a taxi at like 10 p.m. on a Monday. Um, taxi driver was a little freaked out, I think, ran a red light, just got their response. Um, yeah. We don't have a car, so it was just get to the hospital whatever way possible. Um, that was a fun journey. And then got there. I didn't even make it to the the birthing suites. It was still in the prep room. It everything went so fast. Nobody, nobody believed it because it was a first birth, first pregnancy. They they everyone expected it would take longer. But we were in the the prep room and all the delivery suites were full, so it's gonna take a while. Um and then it just I just felt like I need to go for a poo, like a really big one. And I went to the little, it was such a small room and a little bathroom. And I went to the bathroom, I was like, nothing's coming now at a canton. There was so much pressure. And I was like, Tom, my my husband, was um prepared for this part. But he's like, no, no, I think this is I think this is the baby. And he was like, and I need to call somebody in here. There was nobody in there, there was no, there was no midwife or anything. Um, and it was a shift change. So I had a new midwife coming trying to figure out what was going on, and it was all a bit of a blur. Um, and then my gynecologist arrived, and it was like, ah, we're at the pushing stage. What is happening? They're interested. I was just, I was just listening, I was trying to listen to my body, but also it took me so much by surprise that I needed instruction, I needed guidance, and they were guiding me. And I was just sniffing lavender that we'd brought from our balcony. That was my pain relief. I didn't even think to ask. Like, you know, this is really a lot of pressure on my and it it it actually felt manageable um until her little head was right there, and then I was like, Oh, well, there's well, there's no going back now. That's this is it. So it was uh very much just push through it to let's do this.
SPEAKER_02:Did you make it to a delivery room or were you still in the triage room at this point?
SPEAKER_01:Gave birth in the prep room.
SPEAKER_02:Those are like the size of a closet. It was super tiny. Like thin beds, like they're not even Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I didn't I didn't make it to the delivery suite and there was no time. Baby was coming. And uh no, it was a room of four people and then five when my daughter was born. Um, yeah, my husband was there, the gynecologist, the midwife. One person was holding my leg up. I was on my side. I was super exhausted because you know I'd gone about my day like it was a normal day. By this point, it was midnight, and I hadn't had a rest. And that was uh that was something when I reflect back on hindsight, it I should have rested more. It's like it just it completely took me by surprise, and I didn't have the energy then. I hadn't had anything to eat. Um, I learned that from the second one that gotta keep myself fueled up, gotta rest when I can, because yeah, labor is a bit of work. Yeah, it was it was an intense experience giving birth in the tiny, tiny closet room. And of course, there's nothing there for the baby once the baby arrives. You know, usually they have the little scale, and you know, there was there was just it was just all a bit chaotic. It was also the pandemic, throw that into the mix. Uh-huh, yeah. It was a bit nuts, but um, it was because it took everyone by surprise that the first birth was so fast.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then she was there, and then what and then what happened? She was there. She came out like, I mean, I had to really, I I also didn't really know how to push properly. So I was really pushing and straining. Um, I learned later how better to control that with breathing and stuff and pausing and resting and that kind of thing. But um I really pushed her to get her out, so she kind of ripped me open. And she had a little, they call them like stork bites or something like that, the little kind of marks on her little head that they will they later went away. Sometimes you can still see them if she's really angry, which is quite cute.
SPEAKER_02:But I know this. I have my son has one here as well, the one on his face. The same.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she she had these little marks on her little forehead, but it really didn't matter. Um, she came out. We again we didn't know if um the baby was a boy or a girl and didn't even think to ask. She was uh put straight on me, um, you know, to get that initial skin to skin, which was amazing. Um and then there would the next part, you know, where you birth the placenta. I didn't do an awful lot of research about that. It was just kind of a, oh, by the way, after the baby's out, then you birth a placenta, like it's easy peasy. Oh, that I totally underestimated. I had no idea. If that doesn't happen so easily, I had no idea what that would entail. And so that's when things got a little bit tense in the room. Again, we're still in the tiny, tiny closet of a room. So my husband has taken the baby at this point, and he's bonding with our daughter. He's on like cloud nine. He's like, wow, this is incredible. I made this tiny human. Meanwhile, I know that there's more work to do, but I am so exhausted. I literally can't I couldn't function anymore. And the midwife and the gynecologist were aware of this, and they were like, there were words in between the two of them, like, if this doesn't come in the next five or 10 minutes, we're gonna have to intervene. And it got a bit scary. I heard those words, but I didn't register them. And then it was taking a while. And so the midwife, she she intervened and she did this uterine massage, which sounds like it'd be a lovely person experience. It's not. Really, really not. They shouldn't use the word massage for that.
SPEAKER_03:You're right, that ruins massage in every other context.
SPEAKER_01:Really, it's it was horrendous. For me, that was the most painful thing I've ever experienced.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And she really shoved down, and I know she was doing her job. She was trying um to get me out of a bigger pickle, basically, just trying to get that placenta out, and it did work. She got it out. Uh, it was extremely painful. Um, and then I got moved to the delivery suite to get stitched up. So it was pretty much ripped open. Um, and my lavender wasn't quite doing the job anymore.
SPEAKER_03:So not when somebody's pushing around on your uterus.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that was really intense. Um, and then, but then everybody was like super happy after that. There was like a huge relief fell upon everybody. Like the midwife was so pleased. She's like, Oh, I'm so glad that came right. I was so worried for you were gonna end up in the operating theater. She was like, I'm so pleased. And she signed everything off. She was like super happy that everything had gone smoothly in the end. We had our gorgeous baby girl, and I could just go to a nice room and recover. Um, an advantage of the pandemic was that I got a room to myself, um, which I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Um, and that was great. Um, disadvantage was after a few hours, my husband was sent home and told to come back during visiting hours. So, which was like 4 p.m. the next day. So he wouldn't see us for about 12 hours. And in that time, a lot happened.
SPEAKER_02:Julia here. It's my mission over at Happy Day to mentor and support you in creating a pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience that is empowering, holistic, and uniquely tailored to your needs. Together, we'll uncover the tools and knowledge you need to thrive, with confidence, mindfulness, and self-compassion at the core of your journey. That's the reason why I offer my three Hallmark courses to parents in person in the Zurich area and online. They are Hypnobirthing Plus, Mindful Postpartum Preparation, and Hypnobirthing for Planned Caesarean Birth. Check out my website happydayhypnobirthing.ch or Instagram at happydaybumps babesbeyond for more details, useful content, and support. Now, on to this week's Swiss birth story.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, super emotional. Birth stories. I love birth stories. I so wish I had this podcast when I was pregnant because I listened and I watched so many birth stories when I was pregnant and both times. And I think they help so much, but especially when you have experiences that are local to where you live.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, because things are different depending on where you live and where you're giving birth and the services and facilities available and all that stuff. And I was really well taken care of. Um, but I wow, it was it was tough.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because they asked me, they asked me, like, do you want to call your husband? And I said, What should I tell him? He can't come anyway. Like he's just going to worry the entire day.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Do you know how long it was between the birth of your baby and the birth of the placenta? About 45 minutes. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Pretty long time for what normally takes five to ten minutes. They start getting worried after 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, 45 is pushing it. I was on the edge. They were about to take me to the operating theater. And of course they had genuine concern, which turned out um to be the case like later on. So I was in the my recovery room. And just I'm pretty sure my husband was actually the first one to realize that something wasn't quite right. I I don't know, my demeanor or my face, or I was sort of out of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And he asked me to click the little button to call somebody in, and the peop somebody came in and checked my bleeding and then called more people in. And he didn't realize at the time how serious that was. But I was hemorrhaging and losing a lot of blood. And he was sent home. At that point, he was sent home. When they knew that you were hemorrhaging. I'm not sure if they realized how bad it was going to be. That was the start of it and it didn't stop. Um so it required an an operation. I had to be put under, I had to be knocked out. Uh they had to I had to sign, you know, a paper. That's when they asked me, do you want to call your husband? Because you're going to be uh knocked out for this. And I was like, what am I supposed to tell him? I said, no.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, what a question to ask you in that moment. Like, you know, like that, that's I don't feel like that's really a question that you can answer, especially during a pandemic.
SPEAKER_03:More like, do you want your husband to come would be the better case?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Exactly. Or to be with my baby, to be with our baby. We had no one to be with our baby. Those early bonding moments, of course, at that point, we were, you know, was lucky because she'd gone into her that that big sleep that they have after the birth, right? It was super tiring also for the baby. And she she was then sleeping for a long time. And during the time she was sleeping, and they asked me before I went to the operating theater, is it okay if we feed her if she wakes up and she's hungry? Again, what am I supposed to say? Nope. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, like, yeah, of course, feed my baby. But you know, I'd love to be able to feed her myself. But yeah, let's see what happens. So the next thing I know, I have the mask put over my face and I'm out of it. And um they stopped the bleeding or managed the bleeding. There were there were like uh huge cloths coming out. I lost about two liters of blood. And again, it was a pandemic. So I if you weren't like in a life or death situation, if you could sort of survive without they weren't giving a blood transfusion, if you could survive without it. So I got iron infusions. Yeah. But that was like that's that's been an impact on my health long term. Um, but at the time, of course, I it didn't, I couldn't process all of this. I I wish somebody had explained to my husband what had happened because he got zero information. I just got a, you know, when you're leaving the hospital, a bit of a debriefing, you know, this is how much blood you lost, this is this and this is that, kind of like a by the way, but not an awful lot of explanation. So in the end, I had to, I had to go back and request the medical notes because I really wanted to find out what happened. I couldn't make sense of it. Um, I was so weak. And the midwife who had been there, who delivered the baby and done that uterum massage and got my placenta out, he'd signed off. She came to visit me in my room because she was asking, why are you still here? I thought everything was fine. Um that I had to tell her. Um, and I didn't really even know what I was saying because I just said, Yeah, I lost more blood. And then she read my notes and she realized what that meant. And I was in hospital for a week. And at the time I was kind of glad of it because the food was actually great. I was the I was really enjoying being fed, like, you know, and I couldn't get up. I had a catheter in. Uh, I was just bedborned. Um, and I it baffled me that the other mother then I was changed to another room and I was with another mother who was lovely and it was her second child. And it sort of baffled me that she was getting up and changing the baby's nappy and um, you know, moving around, going to the bathroom. Like, oh, are we supposed to be changing our own babies? I just it just felt so weird because I was the first time mom. I I yeah, I didn't have that much experience with tiny babies, and but I really couldn't do any of that stuff. I had somebody bringing my daughter to me um to be fed. And uh yeah, it was a really, really intense and a bit disorientating the whole experience since I really had no idea what was happening.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Wow. And then you you kept, I mean, to then just keep going. You know, strength doesn't sometimes look like strength. Strength can look like just putting one foot in front of the other or just one feet in front of the other, and that is just so incredible that you can just keep going under these circumstances.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they were very careful about when I would get up again and how I would get up. Like it was very, very slow and step by step. Like, first I'm only gonna sit up, then I'm gonna just try standing but sit straight back down again. And then it was really literally just putting one foot in front of the other. Like I couldn't get to the bathroom until maybe day five or six. And and then it was quite nice. I couldn't shower, you know? Like somebody had to kind of wash me down on the bed. And that was that was a that was a pretty I mean, I I was very grateful to the people there. They were incredible professionals, they took really good pick care of me. Um, and I learned a lot, you know. There were a lot of different midwives who came in with the different approaches to things, different ideas, different tips, you know, for feeding and this and that for the baby. And I think I learned a lot while I was there. So I did appreciate that support. Um, and also because Because I couldn't do things independently. I was I needed the help. So when I was sent home, it was a shock to the system because then it was just my husband. And he's amazing, but he also didn't really know what it would entail.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, especially with COVID, he's not in the room with you for 12 hours a day, really seeing all this work that's going into caring for both you, the mother, and the baby. He's not even there to just to just to witness. And you know, you have midwife, nurses, student, nurses, student, midwives. You have a lot of people in and out just taking care of your basic needs. And um, if he's not even seeing it, I can't imagine for him, it was even more of a shock to come home and think, oh, you're home, and just the relief of that and the joy he must have felt, and then the coming crashing back down into earth and saying, Okay, now what?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Yeah. Of course, we did have our postpartum midwife as well, and she was great. But I mean, for him, it was also completely surreal experience because he said, whenever he was sent home after the birth, he said, that was so bizarre because we left here thinking we're gonna come back as a family of three. That's such a pivotal moment when you walk out the door and you're like, we're gonna come back here as a family. And he came back alone. And he felt that that was crushing because he he was sort of like this is so empty. And he was picturing a family, you know, having us all together. And of course, it he just didn't think think about it, that it wouldn't be immediate, you know. Um, but it was a week, it felt like an eternity. Yeah, so yeah, that was um also an experience for him that he later also needed to process.
SPEAKER_02:And what was his paternity leave situation like?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, and he had a week, I think. Yeah. No, it was it a week? I think it was a week. It changed right after. Pretty sure, because he was so annoyed.
SPEAKER_03:And then he was being home office, right? Still?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he was working. Yeah, yeah. And I remember thinking whenever he was going to be working, like how am I going to do this? I couldn't, I couldn't get up, you know. I didn't change our daughter's nappy until I think week three or something like that. It was, it took me a long time to to feel this enough that I had enough strength just to get up and stay standing for longer than going to the bathroom myself.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and then of course, there was general recovery from birth, you know, not just the recovery from the hemorrhage, but general recovery from birth and the stitches and everything that um was it took some sits, baths, and things to sort of heal the area and that kind of thing. Um, but that I feel like it would have been it's it's anyway a very intense time that postpartum you're fresh out of the hospital, or maybe even if you're I I always admire women who give birth at home. I think it's amazing to have that experience. If everything goes smoothly, it can be incredibly empowering, the whole experience. Um, but that healing time, that those first few weeks, you just need some support. I really needed more help. But again, the pandemic, right? Couldn't have my family here. You know, whenever you want taken care of, you maybe all you just want your own mom. I was just waiting for my own mom to come. We had to get her like um some sort of exemption to fly on the grounds that I was very unwell and she needed to take care of me and help me take care of my newborn baby, which we did get so she could come over. I think um when our daughter was almost a month old. So that first month was really grueling. It was you know, we had the meal prep in the freezer, and we had the I had the panicles all prepared for my lovely lady parts to heal. And you know, we did as much prep as we could to manage things on our own. But if there's any chance for support, that was our number one priority when it was the second pregnancy that we need to organize and support network. And we need to have people who can help us, you know, locally, right here. You know, not no one, nothing that requires a flight. Or if we can help, but of course, we still wanted to get my family over. My parents-in-law were also amazing, but again, very cautious because it was a pandemic. Everybody's wearing masks. We only they were the only ones, especially around a baby, and they were the only ones who visited us and and were here. And but I think for us it was as well, it was a very it was a very hard time to to share with a lot of other people that you know it felt very private, like although my parents-in-law are amazing people and they have such a great relationship um with our kids and with us, they're amazing grandparents. I just wanted my own mom. No one is the same, no one replaces your own mom when you need that kind of support. And so that's what I was waiting for. And I also didn't feel like I wanted anybody else to meet the baby until my mom had met the baby. My parents and my family. I wanted immediate family members to meet the baby before, you know, friends would come. And when people did start coming, it was all outside, you know. Let's meet outside, nobody would come in, pandemic. Um, which on the one hand was great because I didn't want anybody to come in at the time. And on the other hand, it was a lot of effort, it took a lot of energy for me to go outside and and be with people. And yeah, I didn't want to explain the whole thing. People asked about the birth. I told them, yeah, the birth went pretty fast, faster than we expected. And we just sort of joke around, you know, didn't make it to the delivery suites and never really mentioned the part that happened afterwards until I could get to the point where I could process it myself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that that can be really, really hard to um have people who you like and who you know you could tell the story to, but you're not ready. So then you kind of make it really light and just like, oh, so funny. I'm you know, X, Y, Z. But um, inside you're really like, and then this really traumatic thing happened. And I and I don't use the word trauma lightly. This is trip, this is a traumatic experience. Um, but then how do you how do you say that when you're just you're not ready?
SPEAKER_01:I didn't even realize to be honest. I didn't realize really well in hindsight, right? Exactly. I didn't I didn't realize I and I also don't use that word lightly, but it was whenever I was in an online Zoom meeting with new moms, right? There was this fantastic lady in Zurich who'd organize these online Zoom meetings for pandemic new mothers, which was incredible because you have no other option, you have no other chance to meet other new moms. And that's also very valuable to you know just talk about things with other people who are in exactly the same boat as you, going through the same life phase, and you can relate to each other. So this was only possible um thanks to Francesco, who did this online, and it it was her actually who I ended up um getting counseling with later on. And she was the first one who said that was a traumatic experience. And she didn't say that about any other birth story than we heard in those meetings. And and I know that it gets it's a term that's that's you know, you hear more and more of. But I again I didn't realize, but when she said it, that kind of dropped on it, just the penny dropped for me. Uh, I sort of thought to myself, oh, I've got stuff to process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like on one side it's validation, and then the other side it's a realization.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's exactly what I needed. I needed somebody external to tell me that so that it could click in my head that okay, there's something there I need to, I can't just glaze over it like it never happened. Um, this is gonna take some time to recover from and to process, both physically and psychologically. And I also felt it as a mother because I was I was really harsh on myself. Like my baby would be crying, and I just couldn't figure out how to comfort her. And I thought, if my if I can't do it as her mother, who can? And so I I really, I really struggled with that and also just really intense um postpartum anxiety, later diagnosed depression and rage. Oh my gosh, the rage. I mean, I'm Irish, right? I know I've got some element of Irish rage in me, but postpartum rage, that's something else. That is something else entirely. That was was so physical. This the sheer force and sensation of that, and not knowing what I'm supposed to do with it. Yeah, you know, that was the only energy I had after that whole experience I got from rage, which was not the healthiest. But it is under but it is understandable as well. It's I didn't know where it came from. I didn't I couldn't put the puzzle pieces together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I I couldn't understand any of it. But I did start talking to um a psychologist who specializes in postpartum. I really wanted someone who specialized in that because I felt like that's the only way um I'm going to have somebody understand this because I had um talked to a therapist pre-pregnancy and I didn't I knew I didn't want to go back to the same person. I needed to go to somebody who's just focused just to focus on this. I need to just process this. And uh she really helped me, and it was her she because I had then flashbacks and I couldn't sleep, and you know, sleep is anyway a bit of an issue, yeah um those those first months. But then when you lie down and you know you just need to rest, I had insomnia. I was like, I just can't sleep. It was so frustrating. And I talked to her and she diagnosed me with postpartum depression and anxiety. And that was a puzzle piece, it turned out to be. Um, that my TP, my house artist, then was able to take that information. And only because I happened to say it at a follow-up appointment because um because my iron levels were still so low, um, I needed to go and get another fusion and see what we can do. And I mentioned to him that I'm talking to this uh psychologist and she has diagnosed me with postpartum depression. And I mentioned this to him. And he then did some more blood work and and um wanted to check my hormones, and thankfully he did with my thyroid, because um six months after the birth, I was then diagnosed with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which explained also a lot. Wow. Yeah, that postpartum depression was a symptom. Yeah. Wow. And it was wow, it was like it was a huge uh it was a huge blow at the time. On the one hand, I just didn't see that coming as like I thought everything was connected to the hemorrhage. I just thought this is gonna take time to recover from. And then I'm like, oh great, now I've got an autoimmune disease that I have to take medication for the rest of my life. He said it like so matter-of-fact, you know, did an ultrasound on the thyroid. It looked like a a leaf that a caterpillar had eaten through, full of holes, and explained to me this was all completely new information to me. I'd never heard of Hashimoto's before. Um, I was so lucky previously in my life, I'd never considered the function of my thyroid. And then it took some time to find the right dosage of medication, but it it did become much more manageable. And then that symptom of depression just lifted. Wow. Like incredible. Six months in. The diagnosis was um when my daughter was six months old. Yeah. And then it took some time to find the right dosage of medication and whatnot. And then I started to feel like when she was about nine months old, I started to think, ah, no, maybe it's true what they say, right? It takes nine months to grow that baby in your body. And it takes nine months at least to start to feel like you get yourself back again a little bit, or you're nine months.
SPEAKER_02:Then you start the process. It's like nine months, and then you start the process, which takes years for you know, many women. But yeah, I think um you just said something that really stuck out to me about like you went through your whole life never ever ever considering your thyroid. And then I imagine that six months postpartum, then suddenly it was literally everything you could think of. And this is this like turning of a page or or changing encyclopedias of like the way you operate in the world is such a for anyone who has any kind of um diagnosis like that, that's something you're gonna have to live with for the rest of your life, diagnosed with as an adult. It totally resonates with them. Like you go through your whole life, la la la. And then suddenly it's the only thing you can think of.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Although I did bury my head in the sand, quite oh yeah. I mean, because I couldn't even I I looked it up, you know. What even what even is this? I just have no idea what what I've just been diagnosed with. Um, and I'm like, okay, I need this medication, I'll take it every day. Great, has to be before breakfast. And yeah. I'm like, you know, I have to get up to pee in the middle of the night. But it was one of those things of just like, okay, it's manageable, that's how I manage it. It took me a while before I sort of sat down and thought, I should probably dive into this a little bit, figure out what this is about, how it affects my body, what I can do. And yeah. But I was happy at the time to be given medication that worked. And it just it was a blow, but it was also a relief.
SPEAKER_03:An explanation for what was going on. Exactly. Yeah. Hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lily Bee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community, and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village. Find yours here.
SPEAKER_02:How long could your mom stay?
SPEAKER_01:Oof, well, um, she was here kind of as a tourist. So after 90 days, I think she had to go back. Um, they were super strict as well because of the pandemic. Um, but as soon as we had a chance, we got her over again. She came over a lot. She got questioned a lot at the airport. Um, but yeah, we got her over as much as possible. But I do also remember when she had our daughter lying in the little bassinet for a nap on her belly. And I was thinking, my god, she put her down on her belly. And I was sort of thinking, you know, and you're like, you have to put them down on their back. You have all these things that you've it's such a steep learning curve that as a as a new first-time mom, you're learning all this stuff for the first time, and you have all this stuff in your head. And and my daughter is like napping very peacefully while my mom was like cleaning the windows, and she she said to me, So this is how you do it, right? When when your baby's napping, you get other stuff done. And I just looked and I was like, I can't. I just can't do that. Like I I really can't. I don't have the energy, I don't have the capacity, I can't do that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I also can't sleep when the baby sleeps. I just need to just be okay with just doing nothing sometimes. Like I just need to, I don't know, just have a minute, you know, just look at her or just just be in the bathroom or something. I just need space. I need I can't be thinking that I need to do a million and one things.
SPEAKER_02:Having your baby under three months old is is absolutely I did not care. Really.
SPEAKER_01:I really didn't care. I was very appreciative that my mom was doing that, but I could not see myself doing that. She's, I mean, she's a machine of a woman. She, yeah. I don't know how she did it. She ran on instinct, she gave birth, vaginal birth to three babies, and she said we were all great sleepers. That's selective memory, surely. There's no way that we were all great sleepers. What does that even mean?
SPEAKER_03:Probably never had tantrums either.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Very respectful all the time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:100%. But you know is an amnesia.
SPEAKER_03:You said earlier that um during pregnancy you were kind of you that you tend to be a go, go, go person. So this must have been quite tricky postpartum where you're just like you say, you're not able.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It was extremely frustrating for me. And then the the other side of that was um work. I then had this looming thing that I wasn't gonna return to the place I was working at before, and I had to find a new job. And I was just struggling so badly. I couldn't envision, I could not even contemplate how women manage it, especially with a maternity leave here. Yeah, I thought there is absolutely no way that that's even feasible. And like with, of course, with my experience, it was a bit different because I took the recovery time was way longer. And I learned also from my second, I did go back after four months. Um and but I took a year out with um with my first baby, and I needed at least that year just for the recovery, but getting back to work and everything, that's a whole other ball game. And I wasn't the person that I was before, and I also had to accept that. Like I still struggle with that a little bit, you know, because I am the kind of person I'm always struggling a million things at once, and I like to get things done, you know, parallel and or get this done and that done while I can and whatever. But I've had to just let it go. I've had to just prioritize and be like, yeah, it's really the windows are very low on my priority, priority list. I never iron clothes. Like, I just don't care, you know. I feed my kids and myself. We do we eat together and if we can, and it's just you know, I basically do priority, like my days revolve around food. Like, you know, breakfast, snoony, lunch, sweetie, dinner, last munchies. I love food. And you know, as a mom, you've got to have a million snacks.
SPEAKER_02:This is always I mean, as a mom of a of a of small children, this very much resonates that my windows are absolutely filthy, but I have a lot of snoony um of morning snack foods and always have lots of yogurts and yeah, yeah, life changes really quickly. And um yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's a steep learning curve, so it really is. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:And then during the isolation of COVID is just another another level of um of learning because usually we can learn a lot from each other. We talk and share and go to the playgroups where you know you have the newborn and your friend has the newborn, but someone else has a toddler and you can just sort of observe, observe this and think, okay, this is what that looks like, or when you're breastfeeding a six-week old and then you're out in a cafe and you see someone breastfeeding a six-month-old, and you're like, oh, that's what that's what it looks like. And you really don't know until you're in the experience of you know, breastfeeding that newborn or going to the cafe or the playgroup with that newborn before you really kind of your eyes open and see, oh, that's what the toddlerhood stage looks like, and this is sort of what breastfeeding a six-month-old looks like. Oh wow, thank gosh, it looks like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh no, I yeah, I mean, I had that experience with my second, and it was m worlds apart from my from my first, and it was amazing to have that, yeah. Just from other moms, you know. That you learn so much from each other, but there's just a wealth of information out there, you can get so lost. And if you're left to your own devices and everything online, it can be so confusing or contradictory, or you don't really know what's gonna work for you and your family and your baby. Um, it just sometimes helps to just meet up with people in person and just see like, look, this is this is me and this is my baby, and tell me what worked for you. Maybe that would help. And you know, that makes a world of difference than just reading stuff online and absolutely. Yeah. Being left your own biases.
SPEAKER_02:Are you okay if we talk about your second birth? Is that okay?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to briefly mention though, with my first because um breastfeeding we didn't touch on so much. Yeah, but I I breastfed her till she was three months old, but I was pushing myself a lot and it was hardcore, right? Because I didn't have a lot of bodily fluids considering at least. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I was gonna ask about nutrition and breastfeeding, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And that was that was that was tough. So I realized like after a few months that um we're gonna need to supplement, we're gonna need to to change something. And so I we weaned her off by the time she was six months. So ripping. When I was when I got that diagnosis for Hashimoto's, it was kind of like also for me, okay, now I can focus a little bit on my own body that I'm not, you know, fully feeding um my baby anymore. So that was also kind of a relief for me at the time. Um, that bottle feeding was was working well for her. Also, I mean, she was a she would take a ball and dine it like she was like definitely half Irish. She could drink that girl. And honestly, I couldn't keep up even with my foo boobs that I was like, wow, these boobs are amazing. Never had boobs like that. Um but yeah, it was an experienced press reading is wow.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, it's a whole other um that is a huge, huge part of like the stories that we tell. Um, that's hilarious, and and uh a very reasonable choice to make.
SPEAKER_01:But the second I can tell you because this the second experience, everything was like I said, worlds apart from the first. Um in in that it was a complete it was a completely healing experience. Um, but it was work to get there, right? So my husband, we talked about it. I was having such emotional outbursts every time our daughter grew out of the little newborn bodies and all our clothes. And we was like, what do we do with these? Are we gonna pack these away and save them for the hope of another? Are we gonna just forget, even not even contemplate that because of the risks involved? Like, could we go through this again? Because if you hemorrhage once, the chances are higher that you could hemorrhage again. And my husband was like, it's not worth the risk. He wasn't prepared to do it again. And it took us two years before we could come around to have the conversation. Like, we we always wanted more than one. Um, and our daughter, she's so is like born a big sister. Like she she needs a sibling, and she's little Miss Bossy Boots and loves it. And she just she just fits the role of big sister. She needs so much that social interaction, she needs another kid around. And and we also felt like once we had our second, okay, now we're a family of four, we feel complete. Um, and we were lucky enough to get pregnant. I didn't realize how much it meant to me. Um, like those months of trying and it wasn't happening, and getting upset about that. I was like, okay, it's that that is tough when you want something so badly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Do you mean it really solidified that desire within you?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I was so ready then. I just really I wanted to, I really wanted to have the chance. I wanted to have the chance to have a pregnancy and a birth and a postpartum that's somewhat um manageable, that I can feel my like I have strength and I can do this and um without any extra complications. And I was lucky enough to to have that. Um, so during the pregnancy, pregnancy was different. I was waiting for that second trimester energy boost, never got it.
SPEAKER_03:You have a toddler.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Toddlers brain all that was different.
SPEAKER_01:And it was different gender, the baby, maybe that had something to do with it. Also didn't know, didn't find out if it was a girl or a boy during the pregnancy. But I could tell from the pregnancy, I felt like, okay, this is different. Um, completely zapped energy, needed more iron infusions. Um but but mostly it was a relatively smooth pregnancy. It was just, you know, just general discomfort and the summer and those compression stockings that I wanted to burn. Um wedding compression stockings. There's nothing like it. Yeah. But we had I had counseling sessions to process everything because of course it was like dredging everything up again and uh sort of I needed to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. And my husband and I also had one um couples counseling session because he also needed to process this stuff. Um, and he was way more involved the second time around as a birth partner, like just in the preparation we did. Like um, we did a course together, just an online one, but with somebody like this naked doula, who I just really loved her very straight to the point, very kind of in your face approach to things, but very memorable, right? So she's like floppy face, floppy fanny. I'm like, yes, these things I can remember because that helped me so much when it came to the birth and pushing and managing my body. And I really wanted to be able to feel in control and listen to my body and have that instinctual experience. And I wanted it, I wanted the dream birth for me, which was a water birth. I just really wanted that. And I used her visuals to make like a birth plan, put it on there, like my blood group, my risk of hemorrhage, um, like all the important things like the first birth was fast, you know, let's all be prepared here. This could go down. Um and yeah, we were we were sort of in sync. That my husband prepared like uh photos of us together and our our daughter, you know, to kind of get the oxytocin flowing, get into good space. And we had my parents-in-law kind of on call to come whenever labor started. We I had friends just around, neighbors. Thanks to them, also I didn't have to get a taxi to the airport that time. You know, I could just call a friend who was in the middle of the night, and she drove us. You know, that stuff is it's just invaluable. And having that support network around that made a huge difference the second time. Um, yeah, so I don't know if I should uh Go into nitty-gritty details with the second birth. But um this, I don't know, signs of labor. What happened? Again, it was one of those days. It just was just a normal day. He was overdue, though. I'll tell you that much. He was overdue and I was super uncomfortable. I was starting to to figure out what can I do to get this thing going here naturally. Like I was just trying everything. Um, and then I had a friend over. We were just chatting and chilling out. I went to bed later than I usually do. But she, I guess it relaxed me because we were laughing a lot. Um, and then I woke up with contractions and I was like, oh, now this is the real deal. These are the waves, you know. This isn't this is not little like stop Bracks and Hicks for a moment, and then it goes. It was a wave. It was a wave of a contraction, and then they it kept coming. Another one, another one, and I woke up my husband. I'm like, this is it. He called the hospital. They said, come in. I decided I'm gonna sleep for another half an hour first because I felt like there was a break in it. I'm like, I'm gonna lie down, I'm gonna get some rest. I'm gonna rest this time. I had a bag of snacks prepared to bring. Excellent. Um we had I also had a little comb, a little wave comb. It was like acne pressure I held in my hand to manage the, I don't even want to say pain, but like really intense sensations, right? The contractions for me were manageable with this stuff and also um like a bowl, like an exercise bowl. That was my only seat actually for the last couple of months of pregnancy. It was just kind of rolling on that bowl a lot. Um, but got to the hospital and said, I would like to go to the delivery suite, please. I definitely did not want to go to the prep room. Um, I did make it a point of going previously. Like I did the acupuncture thing again the last four weeks, and I also asked the um the breastfeeding consultant there for some help. She was helping me um collect colostrum um leading up to the birth in the event that the same thing happens and I get separated from the baby, then my husband can can use a little colostrum syringes. I wouldn't have done it otherwise, I think. I just wanted to feel prepared for the worst case scenario. Um, but having had that opportunity, I asked if I could just go and see the birthing suites. Like, what does it even look like? Because you've seen one. No, I'd never seen it. I had never seen it, I had no idea. And I just, yeah, I had no idea. So I just knew that I didn't want to be in that prep room again. And I specifically said like that was that would really impair the birth for me. The labor process would be seriously delayed and be problematic if I see that room again. It would be super triggering. And I can't be in that room. So when I got there, they they were really great. They knew my background, they knew my story, they brought me to the delivery suite. Um, she checked me, she's like, oh, you're ready to go. Um and so as soon as I got the go-ahead, it was a bit sort of differing opinions from the midwives if I should give birth in the water or not. Yeah. Um, because of the risk of hemorrhage involved, they can't see as much. Um you know, that they feel less in control if it's an emergency situation. Um, so there was a bit of a compromise made there that once I could go in the water, and once I'd given birth to the baby, then I get out of the water to give birth to the placenta. That was the plan. But I do remember, so I was in the water for quite some time and it was heavenly. It was amazing. I had my little comb in my hand, I had water, I had snacks. I sort of asked, like, what am I supposed to do if I need to pee? I'm like, I don't have to get out, do I? Like, no, no, no, no. It's fine. No one cares what's in that water. It's fine. So I was in there for probably a good three, four hours, um, laboring away. And it took a while. Like the contractions were intense, but quite spaced out. So in the end, my midwife broke my water to kind of get things going. And he was overdue. I was like, Yeah, it's time, let's let's get things moving here. And then I got to the pushing stage and I managed that completely differently. So I didn't tear as much. Um, and it was an incredible moment when I could feel his head. I'd given birth to his head, was out, I could feel it. And then I knew, okay, the body's coming next, but there's a break. There's no contraction right now. I'm not gonna push. And there was this silence in the room, pure silence. The most incredible thing. Everybody's just waiting on tender hooks. And then he came out amidst my swearing. I was um, you know, coping in my own way, and it was incredible, just like getting him from under out of the water. It was really the most incredible experience. I could not believe that that could even be possible. And then as agreed, I handed him over um and got out to birth at placenta. And as that was happening, the midwife weighed my baby and said that can't be right, and weighed him again because he was um 4465. Uh like, yeah, like almost a four and a half kilo baby just came out of me. And that was insane. Like what a chunky monkey. I was just nobody expected that. Um, but incredible. I felt on top of the world, like exactly that feeling of euphoria that you're supposed to have. And then I got out. I'm like, okay, I'm ready for the next part. I'm ready. I still had energy. I'm like, okay, let's get this placenta out. I'm like, this is how it's supposed to go. I'm like, okay, let's let's do this. Um, I treated it like I was giving birth to another baby. I was like, let's do this properly. Placenta came out, I think after seven minutes, no issue whatsoever. Straight out, had my baby latch on, first feed, like a dream. Everything was like a dream at goosebumps telling it again because it was the most incredible experience. And now to be able to say that to my daughter is just it means the world to me because just to know that it's possible that the same body that what my body had been through was capable of achieving, or not achieving, it was capable of having a healing experience and then having a postpartum that I could then really savor and also I really prepared for, also gotten really easy on myself because I can stay in bed for that first week, even if everything is super smooth, recovery's going well. I'm still gonna take the time. I'm going to rest. I'm gonna take my time, I'm gonna have my space, I'm gonna have people take care of me. I'm not gonna try to get up and be super strong and run after my toddler. And I'm gonna show my little girl that this is how you need to handle postpartum, even if it has no complications. You need taken care of, and you need to you're taking care of your baby. And she was so sweet. Of course, we have had like you know, the usual issues with the first child's world is just being completely turned upside down because they've got a new sibling. But even now, she's almost five years old and she still role plays as a little mother, and she's taking her little baby dolls and she's breastfeeding. Like, that's her role play stuff, and it's super sweet to watch. I'm like, yeah, it was incredible.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. What what an amazing legacy you've created for your for your daughter. And hopes and your son that he knows how to treat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I mean, he also had the all that initial like skin-to-skin bonding experience. Like I see, I feel like that made a difference because he's very quickly soothed and calmed, calmed down with physical contacts from from me or my husband. And I think the pandemic and a separation that my daughter had in the very early hours, the early days, I wouldn't be surprised if that impacted because it's it's it's harder for for her. It has to be on her terms, which is also fully fully acceptable, of course, but it has to be on her terms. Uh that contact isn't initially not so well received. So the the hug is there, ready and waiting, but on her terms when she's ready. And yeah. But I'm I'm happy to say that it was a healing experience. And and I have but I had um much easier time of it with breastfeeding. Um, and I could I I returned to work, I did the whole pumping thing, hated that, um, winged off it by six months. Um just to manage that return to work situation and all that jazz. But even the fact that I could breastfeed at all, like the first time I tried pumping, I would pump for half an hour and five milliliters would come out. It was demoralizing. I had no, I didn't have enough fluid. I didn't, I couldn't reduce that much. And like I said, she was a drinker, right? So my my second, my son, he was more just takes his time. He's he took a bottle, but he's like playing with it, like I'm not sure about it. I'll see you. Oh we were also connection. Yeah, yeah, we did also connection.
SPEAKER_02:I think we I think we uh we had uh him playing with the bottle and then it and then we had a weird moment. So um if you if you can remember what you said, because it was I would on the edge of my seat.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, no, my son was just, you know, he would just take what he wanted and leave what he didn't, and yeah, but he's uh yeah, they're so different. It's so funny how you can have two kids, the same parents, totally different personalities.
SPEAKER_02:And isn't it amazing how you can make this thread back to birth? I mean, of course, we all know it's conjecture and it's and it's guessing, right? But we can we know we can put this thread and we like, I wonder if that's because of XYZ. Of course, we'll never know for sure. Or maybe some of us know so deeply that this is the case, but I think there are so many factors.
SPEAKER_01:Of course, there are so many factors involved in in how your kids grow up and what sort of personality traits they develop and what all that. But it's just you know, like I think they wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of influence, at least as a mother, right? You know, oh for sure. As a mother, it's an experience you never forget. Of course, you forget little details, but as soon as somebody starts talking about it again, they it all comes back to you. Um and these are experiences that really I will never ever forget. And I have little scrapbooks and I like to retell the story now with my kids. And I do leave out uh some of the you know more emotional, traumatic details for now. But later on, I have no issue with um talking you through and explaining everything that happened in a way that it's healing every time I tell these stories. Every time it helps. And I know that it helps to listen to these kinds of stories. So yeah, I think it's great that you guys are doing this.
SPEAKER_02:We're so grateful for for you and for you sharing these two very different stories. I think it's really amazing. I think it really takes quite a lot of bravery to go back to the space where there's trauma. Um, space meaning pregnancy, newbornhood, breastfeeding, and also the physical space, like going back into a hospital. And I think you advocating for yourself and saying, I will not see this room, you will not take me to this room, um, is something I'm gonna remember as a birth worker. It's something that's gonna really stick with me. And I really thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that was the biggest lesson I learned to advocate for yourself. And also I my husband also learned that as a birth partner, because uh the mid my midwives, the the doulas, the birth workers, the gynecologists, for them, it's it's they have so many of these experiences. But for the mother and the birth partner, it's something you only experience maybe once or twice, three times, four, maybe five, but it's almost once in a lifetime thing.
SPEAKER_03:Our last question is in all of this, from either birth, postpartum, pregnancy, anywhere in there, what is your most brilliant moment? Oh only one.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I think we can list the top ten at least easily for yours, but and I have to say it was it was the it was the moment that's the my son was born in the water. This water birth moment was like nothing nothing else.
SPEAKER_00:Nothing else compares. It was incredible. Yeah. That's the most brilliant moment, I think, for me also. Just as a human, as a woman, it just that's that feeling.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, being on top of the world. Thank you so much. It's a perfect spot to leave it. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow. So please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents to be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. And be sure to follow us on social media at SwissBirth Stories for even more tips, resources, and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses, and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, and birth stories too. So feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, SwissBirthstories.com, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning, and keep connecting with each other.
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