S02E08 Maggie: How A Planned Twin Cesarean Became A Grounded, Joyful Birth And A Gentle Postpartum

Maggie Wyss, PhD, is a researcher, writer, and international health expert exploring the intersection of gender, health, and society. Her work is centered on how women navigate complex decisions, particularly in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood. Her resources are below this description:

What if a twin cesarean could feel calm, connected, and even a little spiritual? We sit down with Maggie, a mom of three, to trace a full-term twin birth that began with a change of plans, unfolded with a warm, communicative medical team, and flowed into a gentle and intentional postpartum at a local birth house. From the moment her waters broke two days early to the first tandem feed in the recovery room, every step shows how informed care and human connection can transform a clinical setting into a safe, personal experience. She gave birth at Hirslanden Aarau and went to Terra Alta Birth House for the following few days.

We walk through experiences like how a familiar obstetrician and attuned midwives reduced fear, and what it meant to have immediate skin-to-skin and breastfeeding support with healthy, full-term babies. Then we follow the shift from hospital to birth house, where home-like rooms, nourishing meals, and gentle support fostered rest and confidence. It’s a rare window into postpartum care in Switzerland that balances medical safety with autonomy and warmth.

Maggie’s candid insights reach beyond birth. She explains feeding twins on different schedules, introducing bottles without losing the intimacy of nursing, and setting firm visitor boundaries when emotions run high. We talk safe co-sleeping with twins, planning real-life support that lasts months rather than days, and helping an older child adapt by anchoring routines with both parents. Her “most brilliant moment” isn’t a single snapshot but the ongoing reality of being the safe place where kids can crumble and recover—proof that calm isn’t the absence of chaos, but the presence of trust.

If you’re exploring twin birth options, curious about cesarean experiences that feel humane, or seeking postpartum strategies that protect your energy, this conversation offers clarity, encouragement, and practical detail. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs this story, and leave a review to help more families find empowering birth and postpartum care.

Maggie's Resources:

https://geburtshaus-terra-alta.ch/

https://www.instagram.com/maggiewyss_/

maggiewyss.com 

https://substack.com/@maggiewyss?utm_campaign=profile&utm_medium=profile-page

Chapters

• 0:07 Meet The Hosts And Maggie
• 1:13 Deciding To Start A Family
• 4:10 First Pregnancy During Lockdown
• 8:23 Discovering It’s Twins
• 12:04 Holding Fear And Calm Together
• 15:29 Sponsor: Courses And Support
• 16:02 Choosing Cesarean And Going Full Term
• 19:01 Waters Break And Plans Change
• 22:00 A Calm, Well‑Supported Twin Cesarean
• 26:12 Recovery Room Joy And First Feeds
• 29:08 Gentle Care And Early Mobilization
• 31:00 Moving To The Birth House
• 34:07 Rest, Night Support, And Confidence
• 37:04 Home Transition And Community Help
• 40:09 Boundaries, Instincts, And Visitors
• 44:00 Feeding Twins On Different Schedules
• 47:15 Co‑Sleeping Safely With Twins
• 50:55 Big Brother’s Adjustment
• 54:38 Most Brilliant Moment: Being The Safe Place
• 57:18 Closing And Listener CTA

Transcript

Julia: 0:07

Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach, and trainee doula.

Christine: 0:17

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. Today we're talking to Maggie, mom of three, including a set of twins. She had cesareans for both births and describes it as a peaceful, almost spiritual experience. She describes what happened when her twins were ready to come a few days before her scheduled cesareans, breastfeeding on two different schedules and the difficulty of asserting herself to get her needs met. She gave birth to her twins in Hirsland, Otto, and was able to move to the Terra Alta birth house, where she had an empowering, relaxing transition into the next chapter of motherhood. Hello, Maggie. Thank you so much for joining us.

Maggie: 1:03

Hi, Christine. Hi, Ilia, nice to meet you guys.

Christine: 1:07

Um, would you start out just by telling us a little bit about yourself and your family?

Maggie: 1:13

Yeah, so I am actually born in the Netherlands and I grew up in Canada, and then I met my Swiss husband in Canada, moved over here, and have been living here for over a decade now. And we have three children. We have one-year-old twins, Le An Timo, and then we have a four-year-old boy, Oscar.

Julia: 1:38

Oh, lovely. So you have three little ones with you. That's so fun. Um, can you tell us a little bit about your road to pregnancy? How did you know that it was the right time for you guys to start a family? And what did that uh look like for you?

Maggie: 1:54

Uh this is this is a funny question because it was it was in the fall. And I actually I went on a trip with like some of my friends here in Switzerland. We went into the Alps, and I remember being in the car, and what they I think they were all like one or two years older than me. They one of them had children, and it was like a topic when we're gonna have each of us are gonna have kids. And I remember thinking this is like really far away from me. And I was kind of saying that. I was like, I don't think it's gonna be that soon. I know I want to have children. Um and I remember that conversation so well. And then like two months later, I just suddenly had this a really strong sense of like I I think we're ready. And I like sat my husband down and I was like, I think, I think I'm ready to have a child, and he had been as well. And it was really quite quite interesting because it hadn't really been on our minds so much. We knew at some point it was something we wanted, and um yeah, then very it was just yeah, it was like a really strong moment of clarity, I think, for both of us. And um yeah, then we decided and we were lucky and we got pregnant right away. And that was also quite overwhelming. And then also seeing my friends not too long after a few months in and sharing the news, they were also quite surprised.

Julia: 3:17

They were like, wait a minute, you just said that this was a long way off. And you're like, Yeah, things change.

Maggie: 3:23

Yeah, and the one was like, was it planned? It's like, yeah, it was like one of these great questions. Um, yeah, so that was it was quite interesting. I always had that faith kind of maybe that's why it was so clear. I was kind of thinking, I don't want to plan this too much. I will just, I will know, and I will just go with it instead of trying to think too much about it and uh getting the timing just right with studying because I did quite a bit of education and then also with working, and I decided this topic, this topic or this phase of life will just present itself and then I will go with it. And maybe that's why, yeah. That's why it was so clear.

Julia: 4:04

And how was your how did you experience your pregnancies?

Maggie: 4:10

Um, so my first was in 2020. I don't know if you remember that year. Uh this is it was very difficult, I must say. So I I think first of all, because I didn't really prepare mentally, it was like, okay, I think I want to have a child. And um then I became pregnant and I had kind of this, I hadn't given it a lot of thought what that would mean, and I hadn't been exposed to kind of any or to any information really what it would mean in terms of like the neurological changes and the physical changes and how I would feel. And my perspective was very much like, I'm just gonna keep working all the time and working out and just performing, you know, as I have been, because that's what I do. And uh yeah, I quickly realized it's it's quite an intense experience. Even I had a physically, the whole pregnancy was, I think, just very standard. It wasn't um unusual. But yeah, I had some nausea the first three months, and I was surprised by how intense that can be and just exhausting, even if you're not super sick. It was just, I remember riding the trains and the and just like feeling sick the whole time, and you can't and it's like it doesn't really let up, but it's not terrible. So, like things like that kind of took me by surprise. And then like adapting to it, um, perhaps needing to rest more. Yeah, and all the while knowing kind of asking myself, why am I finding this so difficult, even though it's like a very standard textbook pregnancy and everything's going so well. I um and throughout, I felt would say mentally I found it like very challenging. I've never had such an experience where I was feeling kind of just so shaken up. And I think also because it was um the lockdown, the big lockdown for COVID took place in the spring. So basically, early on in my pregnancy, I was still able to see people just in smaller groups, and then there was the main lockdown where you really had to restrict all your social contacts, and that was like the thing that I generally love and need is like my my physical space with friends and family. And I couldn't have any of that. And that was, I think I didn't realize it at the time, but I think that was also making it much more challenging for me.

Julia: 6:34

Yeah, going through this huge physical and spiritual transformation, and you're also completely uprooted from your normal everyday routine at the same time. That is um so many people's experience in 2020, and it was so isolating.

Maggie: 6:48

Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's a deeper level. Like I don't think I was consciously aware of it because I was thinking, you know, like I'm still seeing people sometimes outside or I'm having phone calls, but like just the effect of having a physical space and being around other people, I think it gives us it gives us a lot. And then suddenly having that taken away in such a vulnerable time was quite my yeah, I found it very challenging. So I I remember that. And I remember then, yeah, I spent a lot of time with my husband and he was very supportive. And we had we really, yeah, we we got through it together, but I remember being surprised by how um kind of just the internal changes that take place that uh I wasn't hadn't really been sensitized to, even though I had studied pregnancy, I'd studied how people make decisions during pregnancy, all from kind of a research perspective. I wasn't I wasn't very aware of really these profound um psychological changes that we undergo. Um yeah, and then my second pregnancy, which was then later on with my twins, I was really I was a little bit nervous and I was thinking, oh man, am I going to feel so uprooted and so unstable and like overwhelmed at times. I mean, don't get me wrong, the first pregnancy had really some beautiful, serene, good moments, but yeah, it was just like a very wild ride, I would say. And then the second pregnancy was totally different. I um I felt very grounded and like just I would say very chill pretty much throughout.

Julia: 8:23

Um did you know it was twins from an early stage in your pregnancy? Did you know you were carrying twins from an early stage?

Maggie: 8:32

Yeah, um so I had the full first ultrasound and they just had one, they just saw one baby, but then there was like a shadow, and he's like, Oh, I think that's a hematoma or something. And he's like, Well, just why don't you come back in a week and we'll make sure everything's okay? And then I was like, but it's one baby. I asked him three times in that appointment because I had been so sick and it was totally again, I know that can happen the second pregnancy, but it was a type of sickness that was with a whole new power, and I'd felt so exhausted um that I thought something is wrong because I I would like in why I was working and I would be so tired, I would put my yoga mat on my office floor and like sleep for two hours in the middle of the day. It was really uh it was it was physically quite wild. And I thought this wasn't what it was like the first time. So and me having kind of this sense something is different, and then him having that ultrasound appointment. Um, and he was yeah, he I he confirmed three times. No, it's we just see one baby. And then I went back a week later and there was there were two heartbeats. So it was quite early. I don't remember which week exactly, but it was uh it was quite early on, and somehow that was a relief. I I was of course a little bit shocked because of the confidence he had portrayed the week earlier, but at the same time not at all because I even texted my friend while I was waiting. I was like, I'm about to find out I'm having twins, and then like 10 emotic laughing emotions. Um there was a sense sense of just like something is different in my body, and this is not I know the pregnancies very physically, but this is very strong, yeah.

Christine: 10:18

Yeah, so yeah. How was that news for you guys? Exciting or daunting, or both?

Maggie: 10:28

Both. Like I was super excited, I would say. I was really like, oh my god, this is this is real. Um and I was alone actually. I went to the appointment alone because my broth husband was working, and I was just thinking, this is just this, we're just I mean, we just went to an ultrasound together a week ago, and I'll go and do it. And then so I was like, okay, I came out of the appointment and I just didn't want to send a text message that was like giving it away. So I was just like, okay, give me a call when you're out of your meeting. And uh oh, and I remember like walking back from the appointment, like, okay, come on, give me a call, give me a call, give me a call. And uh yeah, for both of us, I think it was a mix. Like we're really excited and at the same time, we're kind of like stunned. Like we we I mean, there were such challenging moments having one child where we felt like, how are we gonna do this? And or how are we like this is we felt like this is a lot of work having one. How are we gonna manage having two at the same time and a third? And uh just like these thoughts were immediately there. Like, how are we going to get through this as a family and kind of do it in the way that we aspire to do it? So those thoughts were all there, but the first thing we did is we went out for lunch and like celebrated because we were like, okay, this is this is nice.

Julia: 11:51

Nice. Yeah, I love it. You were you were saying earlier how how in your pregnancy with the twins that you felt that you felt grounded, how were you able to hold these two um feelings in your head at the same time? This feeling of okay, this is gonna be a lot, um, you know, having now going from a family of uh three to a family of five, uh, but then also feeling a little bit more uh grounded or at peace with your with your pregnancy.

Maggie: 12:24

Honestly, I think the physical experience was so challenging. Like, and again the doctors told me that I have like a textbook twin pregnancy, and it's like it's going so well. I found it physically again, like this is I found it very intense, and I've been very sick for a few weeks and very tired. And I think that I was very much like, I'm just in this now. Like I have to just this is my like job right now. It's like I I'm just I have to pay attention to my body. And I think that was kind of what helped me a lot was that there was so much being kind of demanded from me during the pregnancy physically that I feel like that just kept me in the moment. And I was like, well, I will deal with the time after when when it comes. I think my husband was probably there a little bit more than me and how how we manage after they're born. But for me, it was very much like this pregnancy right now and is exhausting and challenging, and taking a lot of my resources, I I don't have any to kind of I think I knew that on some level to kind of start worrying about um how we're going to manage. So I think, yeah, I think that was kind of the saving grace in some ways that it was just keeping me in the moment because yeah, of just what it was demanding of me. And again, it was I I I I guess it was a pretty normal twin pregnancy, but again, I was like, wow, this is and I yeah, this is exhausting and intense and uh yeah.

Christine: 13:56

And you have a toddler at home.

Maggie: 13:57

So toddler.

Christine: 13:59

Not to be underestimated.

Maggie: 14:01

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so that was also, I mean, the days I was alone with my toddler, highly pregnant in the middle of summer. I we lived, we we spent a lot of time. My poor toddler, we spent a lot of time in the cellar just like playing games. So it's like we're not going out in this over 30-degree weather with my giant pregnant belly.

Julia: 14:21

Yeah, um, for our listeners, could you could you just mention what type of um twin pregnancy it was? Were they sharing uh sack? Uh uh placenta was uh what was the type of twins? Twins.

Maggie: 14:38

Yeah, so I actually don't remember the terminology, but they each had their own placenta and they had their own sack. So they're fraternal twins, it's a boy and a girl. So two different eggs. Yeah. Oh so cool.

Julia: 14:49

Thanks. Julia here. It's my mission over at Happy Day to mentor and support you in creating a pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience that is empowering, holistic, and uniquely tailored to your needs. Together, we'll uncover the tools and knowledge you need to thrive, with confidence, mindfulness, and self-compassion at the core of your journey. That's the reason why I offer my three Hallmark courses to parents in person in the Zurich area and online. They are Hypnobirthing Plus, Mindful Postpartum Preparation, and Hypnobirthing for Planned Caesarean Birth. Check out my website, happydayhypnobirthing.ch, or Instagram at happydaybumpsbabesbeyond for more details, useful content, and support. Now, on to this week's Swiss birth story. Would you would you then like to talk about your births? Um, if that's okay. Yeah, yeah.

Maggie: 16:08

Yeah. So for both births, I had a cesarean and I had really good experiences. So I found both births to be very calm and very uh somehow very connected and also a little bit sort of spiritual or surreal or whatever language you want to use. I found them both very um, very beautiful. And um maybe I'll focus. So my twins are now one, so maybe I focus on the more recent um experience there. I we chose to have a cesarean with the twins, and we leading up to it, so I was highly I went I took them to full term. Um and I the like I remember the last few days leading up to the birth where I was just so tired. And um I I felt different, like I felt I don't know, I felt just the way that my brain was working, I felt kind of a little um just very inward. I felt very like very aware of what was going on within me, but kind of like everything around me was a little bit faded out for a few days um leading up to it. And I remember we actually had a dinner out, I guess the night before they were born. And I didn't we had planned um the cesarean, so I thought it was still a few days away. And the night before they were born, I kind of sent everyone to the restaurant and was like, I'm just gonna told my husband what I wanted to eat. And I was like, I'll just join you guys once the food is there. Because I just I just had this need to be alone and to like just yeah, and I um in hindsight, it all makes a lot of sense, but it it's very interesting how these things, your body kind of just tells you what to do. And um yeah, you I felt like for me anyway, there wasn't a lot of choice, even though I think that was probably I don't know how uh socially okay it was what I did there, but it was just very clear to me that's what I needed, and I had no problems doing it. Whereas I think if I wouldn't be pregnant, I would kind of override that urge and be like, oh, I just I want to be like, don't want to offend anyone and I'm gonna follow these sort of norms. But yeah, so that was um the night before, and then I had a really good sleep. And the next day there was a market going on here in the town I live in. So we took our bikes with our toddler and we bike to the market and walked through the market, and I felt pretty good. And then I was like, lunch, I'm super hungry. Okay, let's cook a really good, like hearty pasta and have lunch. I had a huge portion of lunch, and then we all laid down and had our nap, uh, like a lunchtime nap, all three of us. And then I suddenly woke up and was like, uh, something's happening in the middle of a nap, and like my toddler was in the middle, and then my husband was on the other side. So it was like this really nice moment of like us being together, and they were both sleeping. And I was like, and my water, I think from one of the toys, not both, but my water broke, and I had not had that experience before, which is also it's also a bit of a shocking experience the first time you have it happen. Um, so I needed a few moments alone just to be like, okay, this is happening. And now I I wake up my husband, and he's kind of like, okay, he needs a moment to like um collect himself. So this is a Saturday, and the planned cesarean had been on the Monday. So the planned, they usually do twins around 38 weeks. So um yeah, and then we kind of packed our stuff. My toddler is sleeping the whole time. We call um my father-in-law who comes over. He lives close by, so he comes over and then he just hung out at our house while he um while Oscar was napping and then explained to Oscar that he uh that we went to the hospital. So yeah, we done we drove to the hospital and I had eaten this giant portion of pasta. Um we get to the hospital and I like feel contractions a little bit, but it's not nothing crazy. I feel pretty relaxed and pretty good. Um yeah, and then they just monitored me and I explained that I'd just eaten a huge meal, which is not ideal when you're have to have um abdominal surgery. So then we decided to uh wait a few hours just to see how things if things stay calm, relatively calm and uh give my body some time to like digest. Um yeah, and then uh and it was also interesting because it's the first time in weeks because before that I could barely eat. Like I could eat, but it was always kind of like little bird size amounts, and then it was the first time in a long time where I could just like eat this giant blade of food, um, which was lovely. And then yeah, then we hung out at the hospital. Um, we had really a really good midwife. Um, and that was quite a weird time because you're just in this room knowing you're about to have your babies, but everything is so normal at the same time around you, and you feel like I felt the contractions, but again, like it wasn't like blowing my mind away and that I couldn't, yeah. It was just there was something happening, but nothing too uh too intense. So it was a bit odd. It was like, okay, I know that in a few hours I'm holding my babies, and yet like right now everything feels so mundane, and yeah, you expect sort of this dramatic experience, maybe. And it it was just like, all right, so let's talk about that Netflix show we were watching, or yeah, it was it was very it was quite interesting that time leading up to the actual birth.

Christine: 21:54

Um it's kind of nice that you have some time to, especially since you were expecting it and it's planned and it's going to be Monday, and then to kind of readjust and okay, no, it's it's not Monday, it's gonna be today.

Maggie: 22:07

Exactly. Which was I think also nice. I'm not to have to wait right till that day and like the night before, I can imagine would be you thinking a lot, and uh that you have no you can't change anything. So this way it was just kind of like okay, we were sort of ready because it was two days away.

Christine: 22:25

But you know that your babies are ready, right?

Maggie: 22:28

They've shown you they're ready to be born as well, just kind of although I I suspect it was my body, which was like, nah, this is I'm done. Suspect it was my body kicking out because I was so tired. But yeah, they I mean, then then we had the cesarean. It was I again, I was surprised by how calm everything was. It was just like, okay, we're gonna go. And I had a midwife with me that I knew, and um also the doctor. He I was the one who did my last he like I did the I I knew the doctor that was performing the surgery, so that was really nice. Um yeah, so it felt very familiar, very calm, and just like I don't know. It was again, I had this image of it being kind of this very crazy, dramatic sort of experience, but actually it was yeah, it was just you having a conversation with the anesthesiologist. Um, and that again, that was also something which I found so the whole process, they explained it to me so well, and I knew exactly what was happening. And um yeah, I just felt very safe. And also like they held they held space for kind of my own personal experience of the birth. It was didn't feel I mean, of course it felt medical because it was a surgery, but it didn't feel like that negated sort of all the other aspects of the experience. And um yeah, then they were born. And my husband, they also it took a little while to before they could start because they were twins, they needed two pediatricians, and they yeah, it just required a few more people, and because it was on a Saturday, they didn't have as much staff, so it took a little while to get like the team together um at the hospital. So I think that was also part of the delay. And then when they were born, yeah, it was it was wonderful as well because they were full terms, so they were um both right around three kilograms, they were healthy and just they had could go to us right away. I had one, my husband had one, and uh yeah, it was just and I was feeling so great because yeah, I had such a nice lunch and I had lots of energy, and uh they were healthy, and there was like this relief in me of like, uh, I it was very interesting. I it makes no sense, and maybe it was mental, but like like a mental um experience. But I felt like when they were out of my body, I felt this vitality return that I hadn't felt in like eight months, basically. This energy of like, oh, I uh I'm no longer keeping these two. Yeah, and I just I felt kind of how I had been like sustaining two lives for and growing two lives, like it had just taken so much of my of my energy. And I remember feeling like this relief of them being out and having being there with me, and I get to enjoy them now, and also I have my resources for myself again. Like it's uh that was quite surprising for me with the twin pregnancies. Just like the intensity of the energetic demands, not just like you need to eat more, but just yeah, you need to sleep more, and you just don't have physically as much energy to um do things. And I'm generally a very active person and I like to do sports and all those things, and yeah, just walking was starting to be exhausting. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the birth was wonderful, and I think I felt so grateful that they were so healthy and um they just treated them like singletons and they could just be with me the whole time, and also in the recovery room, and um then I had I'd really hoped I could breastfeed. Um and when they're so small, you can kind of tandem or breast, I guess it's called tandem feeding when you hold them at the same time and can breastfeed. And we could do that right away in the recovery room, and that was also just so nice. Like it was what I had really hoped for. And at the same time, I was also trying to be real, like, okay, they're they're probably gonna be a little smaller, a little weaker, who knows if if it works. Um but no, yeah, they they latched really well, and that was yeah, that was really lovely. And I had two ladies that were super the they were uh nurses and they were in the recovery room with me, and they were so excited about the twins and just like sharing the joy with us. So it was really nice having this medical environment and having just like this human side. People's people kind of which I always that's something I find sometimes can be missing in these settings, um, hospital settings, not just around birth, but yeah, it it was just so cool to see people show their human side in in this work in in the medical medical field. And yeah, they were just like totally telling me about their kids, and it was really it was really lovely. Um and also how they cared for me was really, really well. Yeah.

Julia: 27:31

Oh, that's so lovely. Was it the same hospital that you had had your first child with? So was there familiarity in the hospital as well, sort of in the setting, maybe not the people, but at least there was that too.

Maggie: 27:41

Yeah, yeah. So now I was in a different recovery room because it was weekend, and they put you, I think, in the ICU area, like so it was a different setting. So I think that's probably also why these ladies were like, oh baby. Oh, what a lovely break for them, too.

Julia: 27:56

Two little babies with them.

Maggie: 27:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everyone was doing so well, and so that was a bit different, but yeah, everything else was the same. So the kind of the postpartum area was the same as well, and um yeah, and I was just like again amazed by again, I think this might be like the effects of post-birt birth, like woo, but I was just amazed how people care for you. Like these are total strangers and you're so vulnerable, and you never see them again, but they're like so gentle in their care for you, and also I stayed, um, so it was the evening when they were born, and I stayed two nights in the hospital, and yeah, just the nurses that took care of me was were just like so nice and so helpful and did it so well. And I just thought I was just I remember being just so touched by like total strangers caring for me when I was in such a sort of vulnerable space physically.

Julia: 28:50

And uh I think I think when it all goes well and everyone's feeling as you do it in the when when you can be in this moment in the in the cesarean birth room or or in the recovery where you're feeling this way, just recognizing how much of a celebration it is of all their training, like these anesthesiologists, the doctors, the nurses, they've gone through years and years and years of training to provide this care for you. They don't know they're probably gonna forget you in a few weeks, maybe not with twins. But yeah, you know, they but yeah, they when this goes well, this is such a beautiful celebration of their years of training. Not only, of course, of the new life, of course, of course, that too, but from their side, I love hearing these stories when when these relationships are going really well because they do often go very well.

Maggie: 29:38

Yeah, and they're and I think it's important to celebrate that because yeah, it's such a it's such a beautiful thing to give a stranger who's like such care. First of all, that the training that they've had, but then also just kind of maybe the less sort of prestigious side of just caregiving afterwards, you know, like helping. Helping me on my first walk, you know, like the nurse and how she just supported me. Like I was kind of like, Oh my God, is can I really walk so quickly after surgery? How soon was it that you were walking? Um, the morning, the next morning. Yeah. And uh she just was very like, You got this, you can do this, nothing's it's all done well. Like I was kind of like, Well, are my intestines gonna stay inside? Like, what's going on? Who knows? And she was just very with my like probably ridiculous questions that she gets all the time, but she was just very patient with those questions and like you're gonna be fine and just take however long you need, and yeah, just you could do it in so many different ways. And she chose to do it in such a generous and loving and human way, which which just like I think uh made such a difference in the whole experience for me, the whole team and the way that I was treated and um the way that I felt. And yeah, I was also I really wanted to go to the local birth house or the birth center here for my recovery, um, which is I didn't know it was possible with twins, and I didn't know it was possible with a cesarean. Um and there's it's also a little bit of a funny coincidence. We had moved into a new house right at the start of my twin pregnancy, and our neighbor worked in this birth center, and I didn't hadn't been totally aware of that until later in my pregnancy. And then I was just casually talking to her um kind of about my plans, and then she said, Well, I mean, if you want, you can also do the postpartum period at the birth center. And then I thought, yeah, but I'm having a cesarean and I'm having twins, and they don't take risk pregnancies for sure for um for birth. And their requirement is that the child is when they're or the in my case, the babies, that they're full-term and that they're above a certain weight, and that there's no medical issues with me or with with um with them. And because everything went so well and because they were born uh full term, um, I could go there after those two nights. And yeah, that was also amazing. That was like, yeah, just I still look back at those pictures that I took there and kind of just relish in that experience because that was that kind of took away this hospital setting and kind of gave me a lot more space to just like come into the role of what was what yeah, what was coming, I guess, as just caring for these two little ones. And um I was yeah, I was really happy to be able to go there. So we had to take a little bit of a drive from the hospital I was at to get to the birth center, and that was a bit weird because I thought I did not feel ready to be like out of um out of like a medical setting or like at least with midwives. So I feel like I would like to have people around. So that was like, okay, I'm we're gonna also with the twins because they were just so fresh. And I thought, I mean, I know people sometimes go home right away after birth, but for me, I thought, oh, I would like a few people around me to like be there. And um so yeah, I remember the drive there was like, okay, let's let's get there and then I can relax a little bit. And uh when we got there right away, we yeah, we just had a really sort of energetic and happy midwife who showed us to our room. And um yeah, I just the the setting is it was very different. And I had my own room, um, which actually also had in the hospital by coincidence, but the room was just, yeah, it was just kind of like my bedroom at home in many ways. And I felt very um, yeah, just very calm. And my days there, I only had to focus, like I had nothing to do except spend time with my babies. And uh they cook these wonderful meals for you and they come check on you and they kind of give you the space you need, but know when you need help. Like you don't necessarily like, especially I guess probably the timing as well of my stay, but I had a lot of care. And uh that was helpful during the night because my boy Timo, he um had a bit of a hard time still in the night at the beginning. He would he had a few hours where he would cry uh quite a long stretch, and he would just need to be held and be close. And yeah, they could take him for a bit and I could get some sleep. And like I just had also this trust that I knew they were caring for him well, and was just like such a beautiful sort of beginning, I felt, to uh, which I think set the tone for the whole sort of postpartum experience. They um they're trained very well also in just like giving you kind of trust in your own abilities, which is what you need as a mom. To like you also with the with breastfeeding. So again, it was something I had hoped would work, and I hoped it would work as well as it did with my first um, but I didn't know because it was I had never had to feed twins. Um yeah, and there they were just very like very encouraging and they weren't very prescriptive in how I needed to do it. They were just kind of like just giving me a sense of confidence in my ability there. So I think that was really powerful also uh in terms of like building my confidence before I went home to know what I would be doing once I was alone at home.

Christine: 35:24

It does sound like a really nice transition from the fully medicalized, which you need obviously for a cesarean, and uh just kind of like you still have support and you're not home, you're not cooking for yourself. To then transition home. How how many days were you at the birth house?

Maggie: 35:40

So I was trying to remember this. I think I think I had an extra day because it was a cesarean and because it was twins. So it was like maybe four days. Yeah. If I remember correctly. So and it was actually down the street as well from where we live. So my husband and my son could always come for the meals, which was really nice. But then I didn't have to take care of my toddler. Like you can also choose to have your whole family there. But I actually I didn't want that because I just I wanted to also just have time alone to just be caring for the babies, and then my husband and son could go back home to sleep and my just kind of keep his usual routine as well. Um yeah, that was great. Yeah.

Christine: 36:32

Hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lily Bee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community, and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village. Find yours here. And when you got back home, how was that transition? Did you have family around or was it just you and your husband?

Maggie: 37:04

Yeah. Um so I'd said during pregnancy I was pretty like in pretty grounded in the experience. I was also occasionally thinking, how am I gonna do this? So I did put some like um, I did organize a few little bit of help. So I had a friend who would come who came over like two or three times a week for a few hours, and she helped me out. Um she's actually married, she lived in Canada for a while and was married to a Canadian. So she um yeah, I just felt it's one of these people you just feel super comfortable with. So that's why I also asked her because I thought she's she can like see me in the postpartum bubble, and I will not feel like I have to change who I am during that time. So I chose her very intentionally. Um, yeah, and I had we had really good friends who have two older children, which um and so they and they had children a little bit younger than us, so they went through that experience like while all their friends were still in a very different life phase. And they cooked for us for half a year once a week. So they would bring us every week one like bring us a home cooked meal by bike. And it was just like like you need help the first few weeks, but I feel like a few months in sometimes you st the sort of the self-sufficiency requirement settles in and it can be really yeah, it's challenging. And then like having some having friends who were so committed to doing this every week was just kind of um that was was really nice. Not just like the practical aspect, but just like the way it made you feel was like, oh, there's people are showing up for us. That's nice. Um you've chosen good friends. Yeah, and yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I I don't know, I it it made such a difference, and I really hope I can do that also for people who come after me into motherhood because I just think it's what we need, and I think it's what um I think it's what was missing for me that first pregnancy, and why I found it so challenging was because I didn't have these sort of little reminders, even though those people were all out there, we couldn't see each other and we couldn't do these things for each other. And uh yeah, I I did definitely have some challenging moments too postpartum. I think like here in the region we live in, we have um there's like a tradition that you come and you set up a tree and you put up a sign and then you you hang out a little bit. And um I definitely had the occasions where people would like would come and do that. And um, it was really just a few days after Leon Timo were born, and I was still adapting hormonally and feeling sort of these waves. And I definitely had moments where I was like, okay, I just need people out of my house right now. I just need to be alone with with my um with my babies and my husband and my son. And uh I do I remember having visitors in our living room and they were really having a great time. And it was and I I love these friends, but it was like for me, I I need space. And I think it was would say it was two days after I got home, maybe even one from the birth center. And it was evening, and they had two sort of I don't know, their kids were probably like around five, and they were kind of like hovering over Leon Timo's bed and coughing a little bit and just watching it, and you know, this this sort of instinct came in me, and it was total like I it was a safe situation, but my reaction was just like I have to like they have to be with me and I have to take them away. And that's what I did because I was it was like one of those moments again where it was like I um I'm obviously in a very sensitive place right now, and um, this is what I need, and I think it's what like Leia and Timo need. So I took them and I just let my husband take care of the socializing aspect, and I went upstairs to my bedroom and I just like laid in bed with my babies, and then I was all okay. And I had to have a little cry because I was just feeling overwhelmed by the experience. But like again, I think that's all just like a part of this postpartum roller coaster that is real and all us women go through it, and I think it's important that there's space then in these sorts of situations because it could have gone very well and it could have been lovely. Um, but that there's space to maybe like do things that aren't always so socially conventional, perhaps.

Julia: 41:37

I think that your your instinct that's an example of when an instinct is is is really good, like follow that, you know. And there's no um, there's no it's very rational, actually, you know, these are very fresh little newborns, they've had their time socializing, and and now they just need to be with me. They just need to be in a room and I need to be with them. And I think that that's a very rational and logical thing to happen with tiny little babies. And I think you made a really good choice. Did would did you have the um the Tafel out front with their names on it? So with two names. Exactly. So that's so then you get lots of people passing by being like, Oh, twins, with that the experience you had.

Maggie: 42:18

Yeah, well, we lived, we have like a little bit of a we live a little bit off the road, so we live in kind of a community of like 20 or so houses, and it's a bit off the street, but you see it from the street. So yeah, when uh when I'd be out with my twins, it'd be like, Oh, I saw the sign, and you guys must be the ones with the new twins. Oh yeah, so that's actually I love that tradition. It's uh it's really, really cute. Yeah, yeah. So that's what we were hosting those first few days after because I think traditionally it they do it before the woman comes home, even. So that's why it's so quick after birth. Um but yeah, that's that's how that experience came. But I just I think it's important to kind of normalize sometimes like just listening to yourself and uh and it can be really hard sometimes because you you want to be nice and polite and the ways in which we females especially are socialized in those moments, other things override it, and that can be really yeah, it can be a really sort of vulnerable experience. It was for me to have those. And yeah. So even though I had like a really wonderful start, I definitely had these moments where I was like just overwhelmed again by the emotions and by everything that I was doing, and thing like little things, you know, having one of having us a little bit of a diaper rash and like you know, getting worried about that and getting it under control and these sorts of things. I I uh I also found challenging.

Julia: 43:46

So um could you talk a little bit about feeding the twins? How did that journey go?

Maggie: 43:53

Yeah, that was also um, I think my experience, I was thankful that I had the experience of like just feeding one with my first child. Um and that also went went well. Um, and I had the same midwife come care for me at home during the postpartum period as the one who cared for me during the postpartum period of my first. And she actually happened to have twins herself. Um, so that was also helpful. So she had like different tips. Um like also just in general of the recovery and um just yeah. But then regarding the breastfeeding, I um first I always wanted to breastfeed them at the same time because I thought, oh, that's so lovely, and that's exactly what I want to do. But I have two very different babies. Um, and that boy was uh just like always hungry and always wanting to eat and eating a lot. And if uh I started to notice if I feed them at the same time, Leia, the girl, she would sometimes not really be interested or just drink for a little bit of time. And then if I would kind of try to follow her schedule, he would be really hungry. And I started to realize that was just not gonna work with them because they just had very different appetites. And so then I just I started to I fed on demand, but just different schedules. And it sounds it sounds a little crazy when I say it like that. Like it sounds very exhausting, but it was um it was okay. Um I quickly decided I was gonna keep them in my bedroom at night. Um so they were just beside me, one on each side. And my husband had to go sleep on another part of the room because yeah, I wanted them right by me. So when I would wake up at night, I would just like lay at the when they were small, I would sit up and uh especially when I was still trying to tandem feed them at the same time. Um but then pretty quickly I was laying and feeding them, so I didn't have to wake up really in the same way that I think I would have had to if I um first if I was feeding them at the same time, and then second, yeah, if I was really, if they were sleeping in another room or in a crib somewhere in the room. Um yeah, I so yeah, honestly, the breastfeeding part went quite smooth. Um, I remember with my son, I had quite a bit of the first few days of breastfeeding, I like I had like um quite a bit of pain in like just the nipple. And I was I remember it and I remember thinking, I really hope that doesn't happen. And I kind of was, yeah, so I was very kind of paying attention to the way they latched and making sure they weren't like suckling beyond drinking, especially at the beginning when my body was still adapting to um to feeding uh and the skin and everything. So I didn't have that this time around, actually. It wasn't painful. I think, yeah, my body had kind of learned it from the first pregnancy, perhaps. I don't know. Um, but yeah, it's it went well. I um I really wanted them to also be able to drink from a bottle because my son, when he then he went to daycare later on, he refused the bottle. And then it was always a bit then I would go there over lunch to feed him, and I was I didn't want that this to be the case this time around. So I uh I would also pump milk and then I would feed them by the pump milk by the bottle so they would learn how to do it. And that I found awful. Like I hated pumping milk around my babies and then just not having the pleasure of like just breastfeeding them directly because I enjoyed I enjoy breastfeeding a lot, um, especially when they're little like that. And so I did that probably about once a week um during my leave, just so they would um also be okay drinking pump milk. Yeah, and now uh they are yeah, one and a half, and I still night feed them. I were working on weaning them, but I uh I feel ready. But it's it's also again, it's a bit of a different experience with two, because they have each of them has different needs, and there's like I think the weaning process is different for each of them because um they have one is much less attached to breastfeeding and the other one is very attached to breastfeeding. So we're navigating that and like how to we're fully because I I do feel ready like I'm ready.

Julia: 48:42

Yeah. Um I I just want to go back to the newborn phase. I really appreciate how how you're talking about having them in bed with you. Obviously, you make sure that the environment is like the most ideal, but you have them in bed with you, and it means that they're close, so you can respond, and then also you don't have to wake up as fully when they're in bed with you. It it um it that practice can really protect mothers, and I think I I would go as far to say that most women actually end up doing this, but we don't really talk about it very much.

Maggie: 49:21

Yeah, yeah.

Julia: 49:22

I'm really grateful that you um that you said that out loud, that yeah, this is just what we did.

Maggie: 49:30

Yeah, yeah. I did make sure um like I I'm actually I I'm a big fan of co-sleeping because it worked so well, and I felt I think I would have, I don't know how I would have managed it without, honestly. Um, because I did I didn't feel super exhausted during those first months, and I credit it to that. Of course I had interrupted sleep and my quality wasn't quality of sleep wasn't the same, but um I never felt I shouldn't say never, but I rarely felt very extremely run down or exhausted that I needed to sleep during the day for long periods of time, and I do credit it to um being able to sleep together like that. And I must say I enjoyed it. Like there was like a there was a comforting feeling to it. So I yeah, and I there I looked because I am a researcher, I looked up a little bit about the research and how to make it the bed safe, and like kind of I mean, my twins were full term, so that also makes it more more possible. Um, and there's quite a few things you can do to to make it safe, um, or also things you shouldn't do so that you keep it safe. Um yeah, and I always made sure to do those things. And yeah, I've just I've learned, okay, I really with my first, it was also it was different because there I think I was very much like, okay, this is how you're supposed to do it. So I was really trying to do it that way. And also, I think around seven months I thought, okay, now he has to go to his own room. So that's what we did. And with the twins, probably also just because it's practical, I I've kept them. We were just now transitioning them into their own beds, into their own rooms. But uh just we decided to do it as long as it felt good for us and as long as we were all getting a good amount of sleep, um, we keep doing it. So yeah, different experiences and just kind of um adapting to the situations that you find yourself in.

Christine: 51:32

Yeah. I'm curious about before our last question, um I'm wondering about the the transition for your oldest, uh, Oscar, right? Um Oscar, yeah. How that was for him adapting to not just one new person, but two Yeah, yeah.

Maggie: 51:50

That's a good question. I um well, we can start with something that just as soon as you asked that question that stuck out to me, and I think it's probably a common experience, but like the first time seeing him after Leon Timo were born was like shocking at like what what a big child he is. Before that, he had looked so small and sort of baby-ish to me. And then I remember seeing him and being like, he grew like in one night, he matured and grew like two years. Um But I think at first he was just very curious, and like, um, and for him, of course, he doesn't know the experience of having one sibling. He for him, it's normal that he just we have two babies, and he often asks pregnant women, like, do you have one or two babies in there? Because for him, it's just like, okay, that's just it's just very common that you have two. Um, yeah, but definitely, I mean, we my husband was also home for quite a long time after the twins were born, so we also kind of had this natural role division of me spending time with Leon Timo and my husband focusing more on Oscar so that he gets um, yeah, he still has that sort of anchor point and that person who's really there for him. I think that helped a lot, just that we could do it that way. Um I would say in general, during certain periods where yeah, they were both crying and both had this sort of immediate need, um, then I think it was sometimes challenging for him to go from being an only child, having both parents always there, to um yeah, having having two siblings that sometimes take both parents for for a little bit. And I think it was it's a very gradual experience, but I think it's um and I think it started a bit in pregnancy. My husband took over a lot of the child care during pregnancy just because I wasn't able to, because I just needed a lot more rest. Um and I kind of think that sort of started for him then, and he yeah, and at one point I remember him saying when the babies were small, like when Leon Timo were small, like he said something like this to his daycare um caregiver, like papi is there for me and mommy is there for for Leon Timo. Like he for him it was just it was just kind of the way things evolved. Like if he had something at night, he would go to my husband. Um, and yeah, I think that was helpful for him to know that my husband was really um there for him.

Julia: 54:34

Oh, great. Um Maggie, we have we have one last question for you. That's okay. Um the question is in your whole experience of uh becoming a mother, uh what sticks out to you as your most brilliant moment?

Maggie: 54:56

Um honestly, like one moment I don't know if I if I have. Yeah, I don't think I have like a moment. Maybe it'll come to me, but for me, I think it's uh like if I think about the experience, it's this bond. And it's not always so beautiful and romantic and like everyone's giggling. It's also like everybody coming home from childcare and just all three of them just crying on the floor for 15 minutes because they're releasing it when they're with you. Like I think it's sort of like even though that's so difficult, I because you're home from work and you're tired and you want to have supper, make supper. It's like knowing that your you and your husband are this person for these three humans where they just like release everything because they feel so safe. And sometimes that's like really lovely, and they just want to come with you and cuddle with you warmly and quietly for half an hour, five seconds if you're my toddler. But uh it's also those moments, yeah, where they're just a mess and it's it's really challenging, but at the same time, it's like really powerful and amazing feeling. Um yeah, to know that you're such a safe place for them, and that you have that that bond that I think yeah, it's it's really unique. I don't know, yeah, but one I don't know if I have a moment. So I like that.

Christine: 56:34

I like that because it's not a classic, like beautiful moment, but it does it has um it just shows how how much you mean to them, how safe they feel with you, how uh how important that bond is. So that's I I really like that.

Julia: 56:51

Yeah, it really resonates. Resonates with me as a mother, and I'm sure it will with other people. I I totally get it. I get that that feeling of I am creating this safe bubble where they can have these feelings and express them, and it's and it's really precious. Thank you so much for that.

Maggie: 57:08

Yeah, yeah, no, thank you guys. That was it was really nice to share a little bit about my story.

Julia: 57:18

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