S02E06 Josefina: How an unplanned NICU Journey Reshaped a Mother’s Identity, Priorities and Voice. Preeclampsia, Premature Birth and the Slow Bloom of Bonds.

Josefina is a certified pre- and postnatal yoga teacher and a pregnancy and postpartum corrective exercise specialist (PCES)  living in Appenzell, Switzerland. Her resources are at the end of this episode's description. 

The plan sounded elegant: move to Zurich, open a textile shop in August, welcome a baby in October. Then preeclampsia arrived without warning, and Josefina’s son was born at 29 weeks—840 grams of fierce life, tucked inside the NICU for 10 long weeks. What followed wasn’t a highlight reel. It was the honest, human middle: shame that the bond didn’t appear on cue, the grief of a birth rewritten, money stress that pushed her back to work while pumping at midnight, and a body that cried out with relentless migraines. Through it all, Josefina learned to separate fear from intuition, to ask for specific help, and to treat “self‑care” as essential infrastructure rather than a luxury.

We walk with her from the operating room to the NICU bedside, through language barriers and well‑meaning but invalidating comments, to the moment she trusted her gut and noticed her son wasn’t quite right—then was proven right. That small win became a thread that stitched their connection. She shares how to set boundaries with professionals who forget adjusted age or escalate anxiety, why expat parents need a village on purpose, and how to plan postpartum support that actually matters: food, laundry, quiet company, and a doula who speaks your language. Along the way, she names the myths that hurt parents—“all that matters is healthy mom, healthy baby”; “bonding is instant”; “good mothers don’t ask for help”—and replaces them with kinder truths.

Today, her once‑tiny preemie is tall, funny, and loud with song. Josefina is changing generational patterns by apologizing to her child, holding feelings instead of dismissing them, and modelling repair over perfection. If your path to parenthood bent in ways you never chose, this conversation offers steady ground: advocacy, realistic postpartum planning, and the reminder that a delayed bond is still a true bond. If it resonates, subscribe, leave a review, and share this story with someone who needs the courage to ask for help.

Prenatal yoga series: https://resources.josefinayoga.com/balanced-before-birth

Her Postpartum Plan: https://resources.josefinayoga.com/postpartum-plan

Easy self-care ideas for new moms: https://resources.josefinayoga.com/easy-self-care-ideas

Her free resources: https://josefinayoga.com/free-resources/

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Guest Introduction
• 0:34 Big Plans Before Pregnancy Shift
• 4:01 Early Warning Signs and Hospitalization
• 7:57 Emergency C‑Section at 29 Weeks
• 13:21 Meeting a Micro‑Preemie in NICU
• 16:58 Money Stress, Work, and Pumping Cycles
• 22:01 Guilt, Invalidating Comments, and Therapy
• 27:31 Coming Home: Confidence and Language Barriers
• 33:28 Migraines, Burnout, and Self‑Care Turning Point
• 39:22 Asking for Help and Building a Village
• 46:06 Boundaries with Professionals and Trusting Instincts
• 54:15 Bonding Arrives Slowly but Deeply

Transcript

Julia: 0:07

Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach, and trainee doula.

Christine: 0:17

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. Today's guest is Josefina, a designer-turned yoga teacher originally from Argentina, now living in Switzerland for the past 14 years. She tells her story about her and her partner's big plans to open their own shop two months before giving birth to their first son. The plans changed when they got the news that she had preeclampsia and had to have a cesarean at the University Hospital in Zurich at just 29 weeks. Her son was born weighing in at under one kilo and spent 10 weeks in the NICU. Her strength and determination are evident throughout her story, and she shares honestly about guilt, shame, love, and the intense bond that mothers have with their children, even if it doesn't start immediately after birth.

Julia: 1:12

Hi, Josefina. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. We're really happy to have you here. Could you start us off by telling us a little bit about you and your family?

Josefina: 1:25

Yes, I am from Argentina originally, and I have been living here in Switzerland for the past 14 years. I came here to study, and also because of my love, my then boyfriend, now husband, and uh yeah, we are both designers originally, and now I am a yoga teacher for months, and we have a son together, and um yeah, that's basically it.

Julia: 2:01

Now walk us through the decision to have a family and then how your pregnancy went with your son.

Josefina: 2:09

Yes, I mean it was like uh I don't know if it was uh something that we thought through very well. It was like, okay, let's have a baby. And um it didn't took uh it didn't take much time for us to get pregnant, and uh I got pregnant in for the first time in my life in um February 2015. And at the same time we had just moved to Zurich and we were planning on opening a shop there. We were we had been living in Lucerne before for the first three years of me being here, and uh yeah, we decided to like it was a great idea to do both things at the same time.

Julia: 3:01

Spoiler alert, it was it's often like they go hand in hand, like moving, career change, um, you know, things like that. Getting a puppy can often happen at the same time as starting a family, which in hindsight is always quite absurd, but hey-ho.

Josefina: 3:18

Yeah, looking back, it's like, why did we did we think it was a great great thing to do? Um, yeah. So um pregnancy started well. I had a lot of nausea. Um, and you know, I was trying to take care of myself. I went, I practiced yoga twice per week. I went for walks, uh, everything while we were planning to open the shop. I mean, that kind of was a decision that came in the first few months. Um I mentioned that because it has an impact on the story that follows. Um so we were we were taking care of the pregnancy, we were going to regular controls. Um yes, we were we were careful, I would say. I was eating the right things, I wasn't drinking, and the first months went well. And um we were planning on opening the shop. It was like a textile-related shop. Um, we were planning to open on let's say end of August. This was 10 years ago, so I had to uh think of it. And the baby was supposed to be born end of October, so we thought like plenty of time to you know do both things at the same time. And and this is an important point. I hadn't read a single book about pregnancy or postpartum because I thought I'm not going to be like the rest of the mums. I'm going to just let things happen. Bad idea number two. So uh, yes, you can judge away. Um, because yeah, I think back and knowing everything that I know now, I'm like, why, why? I think behind that decision of like, yeah, I was checking the size of the baby, things that the symptoms and things like that, but I was not like, okay, let's let's learn about this. What could you know what could happen? And now I think like information is power when you know, when when you're informed, you can make better decisions, you can choose uh what's good for you, what's right for you and your baby. And um that's something that I had to learn the hard way. And uh I do not recommend it. Read a couple of books, not everything online is accurate as well. So read a couple of good books, the classics, and uh do your research. Yes, that's first recommendation for those out there listening. So um then by the six months, I was doing my my regular checkups, and my my doctor said, like, the baby looks a bit small, and we're going to send you to the hospital to do some deeper um tests. So, and I thought, okay, we were uh we already had a shop, a brick and mortar space that we had to prepare. This was July, and so we started going once per week. It didn't take long. I mean, we went three times by the third time. They told me the baby's not growing as he should. Um, there's there's something wrong, and uh you have signs of having pre-eclampsia. I was very swollen by then. It was like very, very swollen, and it was, you know, when you think like, well, this is part of pregnancy, sometimes uh this is something something that happens, yeah, especially because it was the middle of summer, so there was a yes, exactly, exactly. It was a very hot summer, and uh I was like, okay, the third time they told me, okay, you need to stay in the hospital. And I was like, Can I go back to the shop? I need to go um sandpaper, some furniture, you know, like those things. And um yeah, now I think about it and I laugh, but they told me, no, no, you have to stay until the baby's birth. And I was like, How until the baby's birth? Okay, but I'm going to stay in the hospital for the next two months. They didn't tell me that this would be a matter of days, maybe a week. And and I think they did the right thing in that case because I then I would have freaked out. So uh my baby was born three days later. I had a horrible headache uh that wouldn't go away, and I was begging for ibuprofen or something, and they said no, we have to let it uh be this way because we need to check what's going on. I had asked my husband to bring me books and I don't know, some my meeting and things because I thought like I'm going to be here like forever, so I need to entertain myself, and it was it was like a matter of days, as I said, and at some point they said, Look, uh, this we have to take the baby out. Preclampsia is this condition that um you had you have really high blood pressure, and uh your urine presents uh uh protein, so and this is not normal. You present signs of uh organ damage. Um, these are all the things that they tell you. You don't realize you I had only this this headache and was very swollen. And I was completely in shock. I remember them taking me to the to the uh operating room and operation room, how do you say that? Um how much notice did they give you? I think it was like they would even tell me, like, do you think we could we should take the baby out? I'm like, how the hell would I know? You tell me if you have to take the baby out, and that was like, are these people going to open me up? Like, don't they know what they're doing? And I was also shocked because of the people, I mean, I gave birth in the Universitätspiel in in Zurich, and uh the stuff they were all very young, and I remember the the person who gave me the anaesthetic was like, Are you 12? Did you finish high school? Like I was freaking out, and they were very professional, they did a wonderful job, I have to say, but I uh I was scared because I thought, like, they are super young.

Christine: 10:12

You were asking me whether I think they should take the business.

Julia: 10:15

Yes, like you should know. Um, was your was your partner like in those three days, was your partner with you a lot, or was he also not really aware? Was he also thinking, okay, this will be months, you know, that you're in the hospital, or was he there with you? Was he able to listen to what the doctors were saying?

Josefina: 10:35

I think he knew a little bit more than I knew, uh, but not exactly. They also didn't to freak him out. But at some point, I remember one person coming to me the night before and saying, like, uh, if if I had any any um fake teeth uh or something, yeah, because of the of uh uh intubation, if they would if if they pull out the and I was like, why are they asking me all these things? This is probably like something is fundamentally wrong. How many weeks pregnant were you at this point? I was 29 weeks pregnant. Wow, yes, yes, and um so I went to the to the operation room and my I remember my teeth like chattering like uh like this. Sorry for the sound effect. Um but I was in so much fear and and like I was starting to panic and uh had anyone told you what um having a very premature baby would look like?

Julia: 11:43

Like, did they tell you this is NICU, this is a long road? Did anyone tell you this before?

Josefina: 11:51

I learned all that afterwards. I remember going to a talk, this was part of my preparation. This this is something that I did. I didn't get to do the the training, for example, the birthing training, yeah, uh, because it was too early. I don't know what a contraction looks like or feels like. And I remember seeing some images, it was everything was in German, so for me it was challenging to understand exactly what they're they were saying, and I remember seeing pictures of premi's and like this is not going to happen to me. So um I went to uh have my baby out, and uh I remember sitting in the in the bed and staying like completely still, and like you cannot move anything because if they miss, you know, those things that cross your mind, uh and they even told me, like, look at your husband over there, and they made me and while they were you know putting a gigantic needle in my back. And then I remember pressure in the abdomen and taking the baby out, and uh and then I went to the recovery room. Did you see him? No, not then, but then they told me, okay, where you're going to meet your son, and I was like, I don't want to. I I didn't want to. I thought like I don't know what I'm going to find. You know, you you have all these images from movies, you know, like they take out a baby that's like three months old, fat and you know, like all round and rosy. And what I found was very different. I my baby was 840 grams, like under a kilo. Um, it was like a small little thing, red, full with cables and and an oxygen mask and a little hat, and it like it was not what you would picture your birthing experience. And it was tough. It was really, really hard. And the other day I pulled out for the first time in a long time because it was hard. The first video my husband made of me be meeting my baby for the first time, and one thing I remember is like, get that camera out of my face right now. I thought of that, and I was like looking at him angry. Um but then I saw the other day, I saw like what I my face was showing was shame. You know, you think like I had this task and I failed. I I failed. So you know, like um, and then you know, it's it starts with all the nurses telling you what to do, the pumping, and the social worker who was worthless and useless, who come to you and take your time and your energy for absolutely nothing. By the way, um, if you don't have a plan B financially, also not recommended. Tip number three. We had this was our, you know, opening the shop, of course, got postponed. It was our only income source or would be. So uh it was it was a double the, you know, in in normal circumstances you would have maternity leave or some kind of of uh security. We didn't have that, so it was like I have to recover, I need to go go back to work, open the shop however we can, and and start making money. So it was very, I mean, I look back and I'm like, what were we thinking?

Julia: 15:44

But yeah, with but you don't think something like this is gonna happen because it it's it is rare, like you don't think this is gonna happen, but sometimes it does.

Josefina: 15:54

Yeah, and it's no one's fault because I did all the right things. Preeclampsia is not something that you that you do.

Julia: 16:02

Uh you're a yoga instructor. Like if there's someone who's not supposed to get pre-eclampsia, it's someone who's active, right? I mean, and this is what we think, but we we don't have control over things like this. We think we do this as a facade.

Josefina: 16:16

No, and and yeah, I mean, you can do all the right things and then things happen, yeah. And the you have no control over, and and it took me a long time to kind of forgive myself for failing, or for you know, for not yeah, for giving birth to my son 11 weeks earlier. And uh it's it's a lot to process, and there's people I I want to mention this because I find this very um kind of upsetting that many people, well-intended, including you know, very close people to me, would say, like, at least you and your and the baby are okay, or all that matters is that you and the baby are okay. Yes and no. I mean, I had all these these feelings of of shame, of anger, like why things went this way. I didn't want this to go this way. Um, you have all these feelings and and they are valid, and uh you have to, you know, have the chance to process them.

Julia: 17:25

Yeah, and by saying at least you and the baby are okay, it completely invalidates your experience and it does give it doesn't give you any space to have these feelings, and then you're feeling shame, and then you're feeling shame for feeling shame because shouldn't I be grateful that my baby's here? And of course you are, you can hold these things in your head at the same time, and if uh other people aren't able to hear this, then it just makes it even worse and more isolating.

Josefina: 17:56

Yes, yes, I think uh I mean people have good intentions, yes, uh, but that doesn't help. And uh I think it's important to find people who who have a compassionate uh approach or who can listen without judging you for feeling the way you feel, and that is important. Um so my postpartum was like I would say it has two phases, it had two phases. It was like the first 10 weeks that Max was in the hospital. He was in for 10 weeks? Yes, he was in for 10 weeks, and uh I was I was immediately, I mean, I I started therapy that was very positive, but at the same time I had a lot of input, and that can be so overwhelming. You have all these nurses telling you what to do, uh, doctors, explaining the risks. So, and that's also creates a lot of anxiety because I spent the next two years trying to figure out like, is this what you know, like uh the effects of uh premature or or you know, waiting for to see like what could go wrong or if there are uh consequences, or and that puts a lot of pressure and uh anxiety around your baby's health. And well, uh those first those first ten first 10 weeks were awkward because I was like, I didn't have a baby in my belly anymore, and I had to work. So I went back to work, I think after 10 days, something like that. Like, you know, getting things ready to open the shop. We opened, and I was teaching workshops at night, and so I have had a pump at home and a pump at the shop. So I would stop, you know, like uh my day would end at 8 30 in the night, and I would, you know, like finish a workshop and start pumping. And I felt like this cannot be happening, this cannot be real. I I hate my life, I hate everything, and you know, you feel guilty saying those things because you know, like you just had a baby, you're okay, you didn't die in the process, your baby's alive. But still, I was like, this is not what I signed up for, this is horrible, and um yeah, I felt very like well not happy, sad, angry, all those feelings coming up, and um yeah, postpartum then was like hemorrhoids and all the painful things you can think of, uh, a lot of lack of sleep because I had to get up in the middle of the night to pump as well, so it wasn't like I was just resting at home. Um yeah, and and then Max came home, and that was another chapter as well, because I was like, my the lack of confidence that I had as a mom. If you would normally be very insecure because this is the first time you're doing that, on top of that, you were like everyone telling you what to do, and uh you're like I don't know how to hold a baby, or you know how to, and the breastfeeding consultant, and and uh also a mistake I made was that I was uh instead of finding someone that I felt comf comfortable with and that I could speak uh in English or Spanish, let's say uh Spanish is my mother tongue. I was trying in German, and back then German was even more difficult than today. And yeah, it was like a an extra layer of challenge. So um, yeah, it was like a very difficult chapter, and uh yeah, here we are.

Christine: 22:04

Especially having all those dreams, which when you talked about it, it sounds so exciting. We're gonna open our shop together with my partner in August, and then we'll get that going, and then we'll have this full-term healthy baby. Because why else would you expect anything else? And then it's completely different. And the shop probably wasn't the dream when you're then pumping and worrying and doing it because you have to make money rather than this is our passion project and this is what we want to be doing.

Josefina: 22:38

Yes, yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, it's it it was frustrating and you know, like uh you want to take care of yourself and you want to take care of your baby, but at the same time, you we didn't have that buffer time between you know going through the experience. That was of course on our on our side, on uh like it was our fault in a way because we we didn't make an uh an informed decision about it. Um not an informed, but I I I should say like it wasn't clever for us to open a shop then. But yeah, it it's like uh it's the way it was. And um another thing that happened afterwards was that I started having these very strong migraines and from which I still suffer. I think there was some kind of of hormonal imbalance, and uh I started having them three, four times per week when the baby was already home. And if you ever suffered from a migraine, this is not like a regular headache, it's like a pounding feeling. I mean, it has many, many different ways of of uh different ways of manifesting. Um and it was very debilitating and scary because I thought, like, if I get one of these migraines when I'm alone with the baby, what do I do? I needed to sometimes I had to throw up, sometimes I uh had to lay down in in a dark room, and I was so scared of getting them, I would get you know tense, and then you know the tension would lead to a migraine. And then I was like uh it was like uh kind of an epiphany I had. I was like, okay, if I don't feel well, if I am not fit, if I'm not healthy, I literally cannot take care of my baby, and that was like boom, I need to start taking care of myself. That to me, that was the turning point. So it was like, okay, appointment with a doctor, head uh headache specialist or whatever, try different things, uh, start moving, start eating better. Um all these things came later for me. It was like, I mean, now I'm like, yeah, of course, if you don't feel right, if you don't feel well, if you're not fit, if you're not healthy, you cannot take care of a baby. It's clear now. But then it was like, no, I have to keep going, I have to keep working, I have to um, you know, you I would work from uh noon until nine, I would be home 9:30 in the night, and then I knew I for me was waiting uh like a sleepless night. And one thing that I remember it was irritating was finding people who were also moms, and I would say, like, and the baby sleeps, and my baby didn't sleep until he was two years old or something, so I was sleepless for two years, and uh, I was like, and your baby is sleeping. Ah, yes, everything is magical, and you know, when they always sugarcoat everything and everything is fantastic, and you know, like, I am probably wrong, and there's something fundamentally wrong with me, and uh that was very irritating, and I thought like I shouldn't be trying to make friends with you know, trying to be friends with this person because I don't feel we are you know connected in a way, and uh I felt more at ease when people were sharing, like, I cannot sleep or or I am having a hard time. No one ever said that to me, by the way. And and uh I don't know if if people are ashamed of admitting that they are not getting enough sleep. I remember uh a few years ago I asked uh um a neighbor, and she just had a baby, and I said, like, and are you able to sleep? How are the nights? To me, that's always like a thing, no, being able to sleep at night. She was like, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh wow, he sleeps through the night. Well, no, he wakes up every two hours. Like, um, I don't know, in your universe, that might be sleeping. To me, that sounds like you're not getting enough sleep.

Julia: 27:21

This is just a series of naps that you're having and that you're telling everyone that you're sleeping. I think.

Josefina: 27:26

Yes, I mean, whatever works for for people, everyone, you know, their own, but like are you either they she's lying to herself or to me?

Julia: 27:36

Well, it's very normal for children to wake up every two hours, but it's just like, are people telling that story or are they telling us a different story? I don't know. And I appreciate your your like desire for authenticity, and I'm so sad that you did not find that.

Josefina: 27:51

No, that that's I found that very irritating. I thought, like, what am I the only one who's having a hard time, who's not finding everything of motherhood magical and wonderful? No, and I know that this is not the case, that just people are are choosing not to be honest or open about it. That's a different story. Um, but then it was like uh very obvious to me that moms need a lot of care as well. I mean, babies are okay when moms are okay, and uh that something kind of um lightened something in me, and I wanted to help moms in in that regard, because I think like a pregnancy, yeah, everyone is taking care of you, then you have your baby, everyone is concentrated on the baby, and uh, and then the mom is like, Well, you're just there to take care of, and I think moms need a lot of support, a lot of support, and and that's also something that I need to I needed to learn to ask for help, to accept help. And um I wish I would have invested money in a doula and postpartum doula who would come to my house and organize. I have a thing with you know, cleaning up to me, it's like I have so much going on in my head that I need a tidy environment. So when I saw everything chaotic, and my I I adore her, I love her, my mother-in-law would come and help me with the baby, but my house was a war zone. If I'm not um, it was like terrible. It was like everything was out, and like and I suffered that because I needed order outside to feel like I could have order in my head. I don't know if that makes sense, but 100%.

Christine: 29:51

I'm there with you, yes.

Josefina: 29:53

And the food also the you know, you tend to grab whatever you you can because you're hungry. And you don't have the time to prepare something. So if I could go back in time, I would give myself that. I would do whatever is needed to get help in that way. Or to say it, to say, hey, you know what? Would help me. I love that you're holding the baby, but you know what? I would need for you to do some laundry, cook, or you know, organize the house.

Christine: 30:29

Hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lily Bee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community, and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village. Find yours here. Yeah. And I think often people are afraid to offer. I don't want to do it wrong. I don't want to load the and and of course they all just want to cuddle a baby, but that rarely is what is the most helpful. Yes.

Josefina: 31:05

I think people probably don't know exactly what you need because they don't have uh they cannot just know what you need. You need to tell people what you need.

Julia: 31:16

And sometimes what I needed was sorry. People like to be helpful. So if we tell them, hey, yeah, sure, could you come over? Do you mind bringing dinner? Do you mind bringing lunch? Or hey, I really need XYZ at the grocery store. Do you mind picking this up along your way? People who are worth having in your life, which are going to be most people who are already there, are going to be so grateful that you gave them a task, right? Because they feel helpless, you know, and they feel people just want to be useful. People want to be useful. So, but I think there's a shame in being vulnerable in like, how do I tell someone that I need help?

Josefina: 31:55

Yeah, absolutely. Even with with the closest uh relatives, um, you don't want to show that you're weak or you feel weak because you're, you know, asking for help. And another thing is that as a as an expat, my my circle was very, very small. So I would say, you know, think of all those things if you're pregnant, think of all those things beforehand. Get a, you know, a postpartum plan, do you know, some planning around it. Not the perfect birth experience. That's something that it's many times you cannot control entirely. I love when people say, like, I would like that music, I would love to have uh all these things going on. Then, you know, life happens, birth happens the way it happens, but then you're like, ah, um, how am I going to to to do with with you know time organizing what what tasks with your partner if you have one, or or how are you going to deal with food? How are you going to deal with visitors? And for example, at some point I also needed someone who was next to me. I I was hoping this person would just leave me alone and let me watch my show so that I could, I didn't want to keep talking, I didn't want more companion, I wanted to be alone and watch whatever was I watching. And it was a real need for me to, I don't want any more inputs, I just want to numb myself because everything that happened was so overwhelming. Also, my baby wasn't just like chilling in the uh in the N how do you say then uh N-I-C-U? And I think you say here um he was uh he was being monitored that everything was he needed to develop his lungs, he needed to, he had uh problems with his digestion afterwards, so it was a stressful period. I didn't need more, you know, inputs. And uh I mean people are well-intended, but sometimes we need to be able to articulate, hey, you know what, don't don't take it this the wrong way, but I need uh calm and and I need to be alone for a moment.

Julia: 34:26

And you needed time to connect with your baby, like you needed this time alone with him on a on like a on a fundamental level, like I know that feeling. It is it is deep within the pit of your body.

Josefina: 34:40

Like, I need to be with my little baby, but that was uh incredibly difficult for me as well, because uh another layer, um, because I didn't feel connected for a long time. I was like, they would make me be with a baby when he was just you know tiny, and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing here, I don't know what this it I was like holding a puppy. I mean, it's horrible to say because I love my son and I I'm deeply connected now with my son, but I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing here, and I don't feel anything for this baby, and that creates a lot of stress and and like guilt, and like you feel awful because you everyone tells you, Oh, I fell in love with my baby right away, and he was latching, and blah blah blah, and that didn't happen to me, not at all. And um I think that there's also a need to deconstruct all these ideas like birth and postpartum is like this, and you're going to fall in love with your baby right away, and uh that it doesn't always happen like that, it happens eventually, but also my my son was very attached to his dad for the first couple of years, and that broke my heart because I was like, This is punishment, you know. You feel like you're being punished for not doing things correctly, so he's more into daddy daddy, papy papy, and uh I felt like well, I deserve that, you know. All these things are things that are in the back of your mind, you don't think that actively, but in the back of your mind, you think like, well, I deserve that.

Julia: 36:36

Yes, it's completely understandable. You would feel all of these feelings, yeah, with the circumstances, but also the way you were treated and the lack of community. Yeah, all of this makes so much sense. It doesn't make it easier to validate it, but it is completely valid, you know.

Josefina: 36:53

Yeah, yeah. That took me a long time to that that's a long process, yeah.

Julia: 36:59

Yes. What what about after he got home from the NICU and then also after you realized the the role that your well-being takes in his well-being? How how did how did that go?

Josefina: 37:18

Um I remember started practicing yoga before, uh afterwards, sorry. Um, one of the things I did. And I would say, like I mean, you need to find people who understand uh what you went through. I mean, it's not that you're going to come into a place and say, like, I had this trauma. Uh depends where exactly. And uh, but uh moving my body in a way. I say this because I remember going to into a yoga class, a normal one, a regular one, and feeling completely out of place, like feeling like I was stiff and all flabby at the same time, and and uh you know, you have this 20-year-old yoga teacher doing uh amazing stuff, and uh you feel like ah everything hurts and and uh completely out of place. Um but yeah, I started doing that. Um I started also um doing some therapies. Uh therapies, sorry, uh I did osteopathy. Um for my she told me that I remember the woman told me that I had a lot of tension in my uterus, and I was like, wow, the body holds a lot of of the trauma, as they say, uh body holds a lot of of everything that you go through, all the muscles, and and there's a lot of memory there. And but I wish I would have taken care of myself even more. I started going to therapy years later to to process all that because I knew that there were things that needed to be digested. I don't know if that's uh answering your question, if I if I understood correctly.

Julia: 39:24

No, I think I I think I I I set up for something, and the story is much more interesting than what I was like setting up for. You know what I mean? Because you're painting like a real picture of like real progress, and you're and you're um explaining how long and how um sort of varied an experience is in life. I mean, this is not like you don't just turn a page. No, no, it's a process.

Josefina: 39:55

Absolutely, absolutely. And it's it's not a line, it's not a continuous line and you go back and forth about it.

Julia: 40:02

Like so many things, like parenthood is like this too. I think you think when you have this baby and you have this newborn, and let's say everything's going really well, it's still really hard. And you have this newborn, you think, okay, everything's gonna get easier at six months. It's gonna be easier, and then one year it's gonna be easier, and then and it's always gonna be easier than before. But then when you sort of get into the flow of this part of your life, you realize that ease is not really a part of it, it's just a trajectory and it changes, it goes up and it goes down in so many in a variety of different ways, not just ease, ease kind of becomes a boring concept, you know, like it's just this up and down and changes, yes, and and sometimes you feel like no, I get him now, and then you know, uh a month later, it's like something else, and the like, but but weren't you into this? And like we were so in tune like a month ago, what happened? And it's just this constant learning each other.

Josefina: 40:55

Yes, yes, they they don't come with a manual. I tell that to him, like you didn't bring a manual with you. I am learning and I'm making mistakes, and uh it's good to tell them that I think it's good to to say sorry to your kids and um to say, like, hey, I I did what I could. I am I I hope I can do better next time. Yeah, I agree.

Julia: 41:21

Um, how is he now?

Josefina: 41:22

How does he have any um not at all, not at all. Um I'm not saying this is going to be everyone's case, yeah, but in his case, he did wonderful progress, he's very tall for his age. Um, I always had I always heard that primis tend to be very, very short or small, and he's tall, and um he's a happy kid. I think what matters is that he's a happy child and uh he's funny, he's he loves singing, he loves drawing, and uh I don't know, he teaches me a lot of things without knowing. One thing I um I want to mention is that when he was when he came home, he had a hernia in his um belly button. So we were told, okay, bring the baby to the to a physiotherapist. So we started going there. I remember I didn't like going into this office. Uh it was complicated to get there anyway, it doesn't matter. But um, you know, listening to your deeper voice, that there's something that you perceive when you go into a space and you don't really like it. Um this person told me a couple of times she forgot that my son was premature, and she was alarming me, telling me, well, he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing at this at this time, at this point. Like he should be turning. Well, he's not turning. So I am going to uh extend your visits. You know, it's like about nine visits. For some reason, it's always nine. And she called us to say that she had gotten permission from our doctor to extend that for another nine visits, which we didn't ask for. And twice she forgot that Max was uh premature. So I said, like, well, but because she said, like, well, he was born mid-August, so by now he should be turning. And I'm like, Well, but yeah, she should be adjusting now, he should be born. Yeah, exactly. And I said, like two months old, he's zero months old. Exactly. And I said that to her, like, do you know that you know he's premature? Ah ah, right, right, right. Well, then it's okay. You know what? You think like if she does this, and I first of all do your job, read the file before I come in. Don't freak me out. I don't need more freaking out. I had been through enough. Be compassionate. I need someone who calms me down, know the opposite, not the opposite. So, um, and this is, I would say, my my um recommendation for people like find people you trust, find people you feel comfortable with. If you if you don't like someone, change, find someone else, because you know, not everyone's fit for you, and and you need to feel safe. You need to feel like the person in front of you who's taking your money, by the way, uh, is also someone you trust and someone who's taking you seriously. And uh, and I felt like this person was taking advantage of our vulnerability and of our clueless. Like you are absolutely in their hands. They tell you you have to keep coming for X, Y, and Z. And you don't, I mean, you don't expect this person to take advantage of you. You you think this person is here to help me and has the best intentions. Not everyone works like that. Just putting that out there.

Christine: 45:16

And it's funny how we are somehow hesitant to do that, or maybe it doesn't even cross them your mind when uh somebody, a worker who comes to your home or the plumber, if you weren't happy for them for whatever reason, you would go with somebody else next time. No questions asked, you wouldn't worry about their feelings or how nothing. And when it's us or when it's our children, we're like, well, you know, they're the professionals, or you got assigned them. When no, you are hiring them. And if it's not a good fit for whatever reason, yeah, onward.

Julia: 45:59

Julia here. It's my mission over at Happy Day to mentor and support you in creating a pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience that is empowering, holistic, and uniquely tailored to your needs. Together, we'll uncover the tools and knowledge you need to thrive, with confidence, mindfulness, and self-compassion at the core of your journey. That's the reason why I offer my three Hallmark courses to parents in person in the Zurich area and online. They are Hypnobirthing Plus, Mindful Postpartum Preparation, and Hypnobirthing for Planned Caesarean Birth. Check out my website happydayhypnobirthing.ch or Instagram at happydaybumpsbabesbeyond for more details, useful content, and support. Now, on to this week's Swiss birth story.

Christine: 46:59

Do you remember um a point where you did feel like you were bonding with him? Or I mean, obviously it's probably kind of a gradual thing, but is there something that sticks out where you're like, oh, you're mine?

Josefina: 47:13

I thought about this, and uh I think like the first time I noticed that, for example, uh, I I think he was getting sick. I don't remember exactly what was, but knowing uh paying attention to that intuition, I felt like, okay, I know, I know him, I know what's going on, I know that something is off, and I was right in the end, you know. And uh I felt like, okay, I'm his mom. I I know, I know in my heart that I'm I'm his mom, and uh you feel you have that feeling for things. It's difficult to explain, but uh I told my husband, I think he's he has this or that, and I remember I was right, and I felt like that was a win for me. That was the first time I felt like okay, we we are connected, and that I I learned that or learned or became aware of of that later that you are forever connected to your child, and that bond, no one and anything can break that, and uh that's very powerful to think of it that way. Like nothing, nothing and no one will ever change the fact that you're their moms, their mom.

Christine: 48:41

Whoa, yeah, that is really powerful, and it it was delayed, which makes sense because you weren't given that opportunity to get to know him to to figure out his little signals and everything if he's in the NICU and you were completely unprepared, but that it does come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's good, that's a good message too, for you know, if everything goes to plan, if there's such a thing, um, and baby is on, you know, to term and everything, uh there's a lot of people who still feel that way, that that that bond isn't immediate, and we have this idea that it needs to be, or we're not a good mom, or we don't love our child, which is not true at all.

Josefina: 49:23

No, so that's no, no, that's it's a good thing to uh talk about that. Like things can go differently. Yeah.

Julia: 49:38

Wow. Um I think it's maybe time for our final question, which is really sad. I would actually really like to keep talking with you because I think you offer a really beautiful perspective on motherhood and and the journey. In your whole experience of motherhood, of becoming a mother, what would you say sticks out as your most brilliant moment?

Speaker 00: 50:04

That's difficult. That's difficult.

Julia: 50:09

Take your time, it's intentionally vague.

Josefina: 50:17

I think one of the things I like is the fact that I can change things that I didn't like. I don't know if that makes sense, if that's going to make sense, but I am I have the power to change things that um were in a way, the way that I was brought up. I don't know if so, for example telling my my son that I I was wrong, that I or apologizing to my son, that was not the way I was brought up. I think many in our generation, that I can change the way I react when in comparison to myself, the way I react when he's having a strong feeling, when he's disappointed, when he's angry, when he's sad, instead of shutting him down and saying, like, come on, that's not worth it, to pay attention or you know, like dismissing his his feelings, to just hold him and not say everything is going to be okay, but comforting him and that having the power to change things to I think that's a moment. I mean, I'm I'm sure I'm making lots of mistakes, and he's going to tell me in 20 years, like you did you said that to me, or you did this or that. But at least, you know, I am telling him I don't know everything, I don't have all the answers. I am I'm human, I make mistakes, and uh I'm open about it. And I am not trying to tell him like I'm a superhero, a perfect being. I'm imperfect, I make mistakes. And if he tells me something like I'm you're right, I made a mistake, I'm sorry about it. And to be being able to model that for your child, it's it's wonderful because then they don't feel bad if they have to apologize because they saw me and his dad doing it. And uh yeah, I think I think that that is uh that is a powerful thing for me to realize.

Christine: 52:42

Yeah, that's an that's an incredible gift to give him. Yeah, I think so. Thank you so much, Josefina, for sharing your story and and talking with us. It was a real pleasure.

Josefina: 52:57

Thank you for creating this wonderful space. I think it's so healing for for me, for everyone listening. It's a wonderful thing to offer. Thank you so much for having me.

Julia: 53:15

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow. So please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents to be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. And be sure to follow us on social media at SwissBirth Stories for even more tips, resources, and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses, and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, and birth stories too. So feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, SwissBirthstories.com, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning, and keep connecting with each other.