Swiss Birth Stories

Ashley: Finding Peace in the Process- The Layers of Building a Family Through IVF

• Julia and Christine • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Ashley's comprehensive resources are below this description. 

Ashley shares her remarkable journey through IVF, international moves, and a picture perfect birth which she was encouraged to share. Her story demonstrates how resilience, support networks, and finding peace in unexpected circumstances can create beautiful pregnancy and birth experiences despite complex logistics.

• Started trying to conceive naturally before turning to IVF after a year
• Completed two rounds of IVF with traditional Chinese medicine support
• First son conceived during second fresh IVF cycle 
• Moved internationally while five months pregnant when husband took job in England
• Gave birth standing up at Bethesda Hospital in Basel with doula support
• Her first birth was "exceptional" and "picture perfect" according to her, her midwife and doula and she was encouraged to share this story
• Moved to England with two-month-old baby to begin new chapter as family of three
• Underwent three failed embryo transfers during COVID summer
• Successfully conceived second child through complex coordination between Switzerland and England
• Second birth more challenging due to baby's position, requiring an epidural
• Navigated postpartum periods with family support while managing international transitions
• Made conscious decision about remaining embryos, hoping to help another family
• Emphasizes importance of community support throughout fertility and birth journeys

If you're going through infertility or birth preparation and would like to connect, Ashley is available to support others on similar journeys. Reach out through the contact details in our show notes.

As a people professional, coach and educated psychologist, Ashley uses a solution and strengths-focused approach based in positive psychology to support working parents and anyone confronted with fertility issues. Find her on LinkedIn to learn more: https://lnkd.in/eU22zWtH'




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Speaker 1:

Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach and trainee doula.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three. In today's episode we're talking with Ashley, a mom whose journey to parenthood was shaped by IVF Not just the beginning, but a surprising emotional ending too, which we don't often hear about. She shares how she conceived her younger son before her older one, how she navigated birth at Bethesda Hospital in Basel and the emotional layers of building a family through fertility treatment. It's a powerful story of resilience, unexpected twists and finding peace in the process.

Speaker 3:

Hi, good morning everyone. I'm Ashley Rinker. I am a parent transitional coach based outside of Zurich. I'm Californian by birth, swiss by paper and raising two young boys outside of Zurich with my Swiss husband.

Speaker 2:

Awesome Thanks for being with us, Ashley.

Speaker 3:

Happy to be here, Christine. Happy to be here, Julia.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. We are so happy to have you here. Could you tell us a little bit about the story of your first child and how you made that decision to become parents and how that?

Speaker 3:

went for you yeah yeah, absolutely, I think for us. You know, we've been in our relationship for some time and it felt like the right time professionally to go ahead and start trying to start a family. And for us it was less of a straightforward process. A year after trying to conceive it became apparent that there were fertility issues that we needed to sort through. And that was a particularly difficult time because we are the kind of people who believe in hard work and when you set your mind to something, it happens right. And that wasn't necessarily the case with a natural conception and it wasn't necessarily the case with IVF, icsi either.

Speaker 3:

There was a few rounds that we had to do, a bit of waiting before we could even get into the system to try for IVF, and meanwhile it feels like the rest of the world is progressing with life around you and you're kind of left behind. So there was a huge emotional burden, let alone the physical demands of what IVF could mean, and in the end we did two rounds of live IVF. We had support with traditional Chinese medicine. That was the one thing that my fertility clinic said could make any sort of difference, at least for our situation. So my husband and I both had TCM to support us through, and had a bit of gap also between our two fresh IVF cycles just for the sake of stress management, and we were lucky that for both cycles we had some fresh embryos as much as ones to freeze.

Speaker 3:

Our first cycle was a complete. It was completely unsuccessful, but we did have one frozen embryo left over from that and so that was there, and they said actually what we'd recommend though before you transfer that one, go ahead and do a fresh cycle. So some months later we went ahead and did a fresh cycle and transferred two embryos and one of them made it and that was our um, sweet little boy, our first boy, um, who was, was, was conceived and was, uh, was, was is the one that we um the birth that we'll. We'll focus on um as as our conversation progresses Um, so yeah, it was um. It was a bit of a journey, but it was a really, really special and welcomed outcome.

Speaker 1:

Um, how long did the did the process to?

Speaker 3:

conceive him, take with all the IVF treatments. So just under a year, I mean, we found out we needed IVF support. We had to wait three months to get our first consultation appointment, and then it was still another two months until we could get our first cycle, and then, when that failed, and it just felt like the world was in shambles, we took a break and, you know, three, four months later we had that fresh cycle, and so that was just under a year that all of that happened. And then, yeah, we conceived, and it was a very it was interesting because the doctor says you see the little heartbeat on screen at six weeks old, you know, six weeks in utero, and we're just, like you know, floored and excited and just feeling just over the moon. And he says, well, the easy part's over.

Speaker 3:

Now it gets hard, and it was just a reminder when you've gone through infertility and you're just like this feels like just the world's caving in on you in some aspects of it, depending on how you handle it, to be told that you're just kind of like OK, so what's happening? And I have to say, though, my pregnancy and my birth exceptional. I mean exceptional, and I'm excited to share the details of that um, as, as we, as we keep speaking um, any other thoughts from you all around the, the, the infertility experience, or should I kind of continue on that theme and move into the next phase of uh, of uh, from conception to pregnancy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you can move on into pregnancy and tell us about what that was like. Absolutely, Absolutely, Um. So I I think you can move on into pregnancy and tell us about what that was like.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, absolutely so, I have to say I was. My body handles pregnancy quite well. I didn't have any of the normal symptoms, some nausea, but it was manageable with some ginger tea or like a Ricola to suck on, and it was quite easy in that sense. And during this time though I think it's important to mention this we were living in Zurich and my husband was considering his career options and I being five months pregnant, he said let's move to England. And I thought what the wait? A minute, we just, you know we're stable in Zurich, I, you know, as an immigrant, I'm settled, you have your job, I have my job, we're happy in Zurich, we finally are conceiving, we finally have our baby on the way. And now you want to, you want, you're suggesting an international move. It's amazing how often people would say this to me. It goes hand in hand. Babies and moves and career changes. They all happened at once, for whatever reason, and, oh goodness, it did so, um.

Speaker 3:

So we made that decision in in November, um, uh, of the of the year of my pregnancy, um, to, to, to move, and he accepted a job offer. In December we went and got the apartment in England. Um, in that January he moved to England. In February I, all our stuff left Zurich and went on a boat to or you know, transport to England. In March I left our apartment. So he's living in Zurich Uh sorry, he's living in England. I'm living in Zurich and in March, um, I moved to my in-laws in Basel and in April is is when I had the baby at Patez de Spital.

Speaker 3:

So there's a lot of like. It was this kind of like, this ticker countdown of like going here, and so I'm very, very I feel very lucky that my pregnancy was so chill and smooth, because at some point I actually just switched to the doctors at Patez de Spital. I didn't't know who my Frauenarzt or my gynecologist would be. It was just whoever was on call and for me I was quite comfortable with that. I kind of I'm someone who you know trusts the. If they're here at the hospital they have a certain level of qualification and I connect well with people quickly. I know for some people they want to have that personal interaction, so it's to be valued, but for me, thankfully, in my situation I could adapt easily.

Speaker 3:

But what I did do, given that my husband was living in one country and I was on my own with my in-laws in Basel, I did seek a doula, and so that for me was a critical point and something that I always recommend to anyone through their birth journey, even if it's in a stable situation and I'm like mine was a little bit of an upheaval, and I did all the things that she recommended, that the little brochures recommend for whatever it is taking the linsemen, the lentil seeds, yeah, anyways, there's all these kind of little home remedies that the Swiss hospital typically recommends raspberry tea and this sort of stuff and my doula also had some input and I wanted her there. In case you know, I go into labor and my husband is still in England because he was coming back on the weekends and we were kind of like fingers things work out. But I also wanted her to be there to support him because it's our first baby. We're both kind of living in this transient situation and it was like he a doula there, I felt, and he as well. The doula was there to support us and our baby, not just me through the process. So it was really nice to have her and develop a relationship with her as much as be cared for by my in-laws. That's also a luxury I don't underestimate. So yeah, so here we are. In April I finished work, turn in my laptop, you know I'm getting ready to have the baby and then move to England. So I'm finishing up my work in Switzerland and having that relationship with my, with my doula, seeing my husband occasionally and and counting down the days.

Speaker 3:

And, true to who I am as a person, my labor started right on my due date and baby was born right on his due date. So it's a four percent chance, apparently, that a baby actually arrives when they're supposed to. I blame it on the IVF being a very structured process. They just kind of, you know, followed suit and so, and interestingly enough, it feels kind of special. I have Armenian heritage, so he was born on Armenian Genocide Recognition Day and it's also he was born the week of Infertility Awareness Week in the US. So it just kind of felt like this really sort of special sort of like on his due date, and these other two significant bits of my history were there as well.

Speaker 3:

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. Let me go back to when labor started, and you know, of course you read all the things that they tell you this is how it's going to start, this is how it's going to feel. This is what you should do, and I did use like an app tracker to kind of check that my contractions and the duration and I phoned my doula, kind of put her on watch. Of course my husband was there with me and we really just kind of let it progress as much as possible. And I had this like I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I've done yoga in the past. I did yoga during my pregnancy and during labor. I had found that I needed to move a lot. So I had this really strange dance I would call it. I put like my hands on the wall on the door and I'd like do this like squat thing. That kind of was like you can kind of imagine like baby down the birth canal, I don't know. It was a very strange breathing exercise. It was just something that came to me and I found it and it sounds really intuitive.

Speaker 1:

That sounds really intuitive. So your husband made it back in time, Did. Did you go into labor also on a weekend too?

Speaker 3:

You know, he, we knew, I mean obviously around the, around the due date. It was a bit like these are pre-COVID times, so his employer let him work remote during when we knew which was a big deal back then Huge deal, huge, yeah, yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 3:

So, so really understanding and supportive employer on that side of things. So yeah, it was just kind of like well, here's the you know the obvious, you know plus minus three days I'll, you know, work remotely and you know hope for the best and yeah, it worked out. It worked out really well in that sense that the timing was right.

Speaker 1:

And aside from regular contractions, did you have any other signs of early labor, maybe even in the time before, or what? Did it just start with some regular contractions?

Speaker 3:

I mean, there were things you know, like you, I, you know you could see the drop, you know from like he was. You know, sitting higher up and a bit lower. I didn't have any swelling, I didn't have any back aches, I didn't have any. I guess schwer belastung, you know difficulties during, you know pain, or anything like that. So I would say it was probably all the normal signs happening at like, the more the like, more, more, in a compact timeframe, um, so so it wasn't that there was um a huge amount of um, of um awareness. I'm even trying to think I think I, even we, actually waited quite a long time at home, um, before going to the hospital and I actually even um I, dear dear listeners, dear listeners, you will learn so many things about your body through pregnancy. So disclaimer here I lost my mucus plug even at home, like I had progressed so much. My doula was convinced that I could have had a home birth, just in the way I was managing it, the progress I was making and just how my body was responding. So I guess those were some of the obvious signs where it was a bit like oh okay, your water's broken, your mucus plug's coming out, you've made it fairly far along and now it's time to go to the hospital. So, yeah, so I guess those were the signs. So you make the call to the hospital.

Speaker 3:

My mother-in-law drove all three of us over and I remember being so nervous about getting a contraction in the car ride and not being able to do my dance that I just hummed. It was a completely made up sort of humming, but potentially, coming from this idea of the intuition that you just mentioned, julia, or the hypnobirthing that I had practiced as well, where I just kind of like got a little bit into myself and my dualist impression is that I even like regressed a little bit but for the sake of like self-preservation, just to kind of get there. And then, getting to the hospital, they fed me a wonderful meal, which was fabulous. They just said here, you know, eat up. It's going to be a long ride. They gave me some little trubuzuker these little, you know, sugar boost things and I was like, let's do it. You know, I had my little water bottle and I was like, yep, let's get this baby here.

Speaker 3:

Particularly, we had wanted him for three years by this point. We had been waiting. We had wanted him for three years. By this point. We had been waiting. We had our conception totaled three years. Sorry, our time to conceive totaled three years with IVF and all that in between.

Speaker 3:

So we were ready for him and I continued my dance as I kind of helped move him out and I actually gave birth standing up. So I had my arms and elbows on my on the hospital table and he kind of came out and then I kind of crawled up on the table and they put him on me and he was dead quiet, he was not making a peep and he just was beautiful and wonderful. And during this whole time my doula was there. She had this amazing back thing that she would do to press my back. That just felt incredible. She was talking to the medical staff. She was really there and my husband was with me. He wasn't occupied at all and I just still feel that she was so instrumental. It's just this third party to just handle um, to just handle some of that admin emotion, physical, everything in between, and she took great pictures. So we have these really wonderful photos of of us as a first time family um, thanks to her, and um, and yeah, they, they, they.

Speaker 3:

She stayed with us a little bit and then, and then she left, so this is, I guess he was born at like two in the morning, I think, and so somewhere around then. So she was tired, we were all tired and so, yeah, but she, she had said to me you know, us and the medical staff agree that you have just had a picture book birth and you need to share this story because there's not enough powerful stories like this. So I didn't have any medication, I had no epidural, I had, you know, just my standard IV to just kind of, you know, be ready, keep my vitals. But everything went perfect. I mean, as you, as you, you you can describe in this, in this sort of situation. So that was just stunning to hear. And, yeah, we two became three.

Speaker 2:

Did it feel that way to you? Like? Did that resonate with you when she said you just had this picture, perfect birth, or this textbook?

Speaker 3:

I mean, it's a strange one, because you don't she hadn't said that to me, I don't think I would have, being the first time, I don't think I would have like understood it at that perfect 10th. That's I'm using their words sort of description. I think, though, that, going through it, I felt it felt magical, it felt special it it so. So I guess what I'm saying is, if I had only had my own thoughts, I think I would have recognized the magic of it and the, the positivity, and just it brought me more, and it was nothing that there's no, I have no fear at all connected to, to the birth, um, um, and and and. So I think, in that sense, yes, I I came to my own conclusion, but it was really interesting to hear her, as an experienced person, to to have that observation and then again that encouragement to share it, cause there's, there's, there's there's too many, too many um other kinds of stories when it comes to birth and and less um ones that are so, so, so positive and and and rewarding.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, yeah, I'm glad to encourage you to do that.

Speaker 3:

I.

Speaker 2:

I'm.

Speaker 3:

I was gonna say, and I'm glad that I have the platform to share it on as well.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lilybee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village Find yours here. It takes a village Find yours here. And that you were standing, you know just. I think sometimes people just need to be told that you have to think outside the box, rather than what you see in movies or kind of come to expect like whatever is comfortable for you and works for you 100%.

Speaker 3:

I think the, the, it was. It was interesting Even. You know, you see what's in the movies, women laying on their backs, and I was like that just looks like the worst thing ever and probably more pain inducing. So for me it was very much a conscious decision, like go to the position that makes sense. Um, and you know, considering, you know the, they have the, the, the, the blankets or whatever that hang from the ceiling, the bouncing ball. And you know the, they have the, the, the, the blankets or whatever that hang from the ceiling, the bouncing ball. And you know, I mean I was open to all of that um sort of support as well. So, um, but yeah, it, um, it was, it was, it was great, it was, it was wonderful.

Speaker 3:

Um, it was amazing that he just came out perfectly silent as well. He just was chill, as could be, um, and then our hospital stay started, would it be? Would it be? Does it feel right for me to continue and get to a point, maybe when we come home? Or how far along would you like me to take the story?

Speaker 1:

I think, hearing. We'd love to hear about your postpartum experience and how that began in the hospital and how that went when you went home.

Speaker 3:

Great, I will do that. And so we were had the luxury of having a family room at the hospital for three days. So I remember we were all together and we have our baby and we're thinking, okay, so what do we? What do we do with him now? And they have a little bed and we put them in this little bed and we're like, okay, good night. And you know, and he's crying and he's just kind of making this little like, oh, like he's not screaming and and the staff are like no one ever uses that bed, everyone just holds their baby. So so it was. It was quite funny to have this little bed, but to to then kind of realize like actually there's a, we'll just keep him with us. So we had a little family bed for those three days.

Speaker 3:

A lot of contact as they encourage. I think it's important to note and I share this more as an awareness, not because this is anything to like create fear in anyone, but I had. I had the foresight given other experiences to watch. I had the foresight given other experiences to to watch for tongue tightness and he actually had trouble latching and I needed a little shield to to encourage that. And I was watching his tongue one day this is maybe like day one or two, and it just wasn't moving the right way when he would cry. You know what I mean, like when you cry your tongue. Kind of does this looking his was still and I was like typical, like heart shaped. Kind of does this looking His was still and I was like guys.

Speaker 1:

Did you have a typical like heart-shaped kind of tongue where it kind of goes in a little bit?

Speaker 3:

Or was it just hurt like really stiff? You know I couldn't, I can't remember the shape, but I just remember the lack of mobility. And that's when I said to the doctors can you guys check this? And absolutely he was tongue-tied. So they like did a little, you know, right there in the hospital and I was so glad that it was just. It was just something that I had. You know, recently people had mentioned it to me and had experiences with their own kids and you know even stories like four months later they realized, and so it was, I was. I was glad that I had that look, because I had that awareness to look, because it's quite a critical one when you're breastfeeding to to know that their, their little tongues are working the way they need to be. So, yeah, that was kind of a bit of a positive moment as well.

Speaker 3:

And, yeah, we just enjoyed being in the hospital, had an excellent care at Bethesda my husband could stay with me. We had visitors pre-COVID, so there was lots of visitors that could come. We had a little couch and, yeah, my doula would come by as well. She would bring me these little Powerball treats and some lavender massage stuff and really, really nice to have that sort of support from her in terms of recovery. And then it was time to go home, and so, yeah, we went home and when you leave the hospital they give you prescriptions for pain meds or anything else that they think that you might need as your body begins healing. And so just a little side note I can't remember the pharmacy, but there is a drive-through pharmacy near the Bethesda Spital, which is quite convenient when you're a new family and you don't know how to take a baby out of a car yet and these sorts of things, and you can just drive through, get your, get your um, your your meds and uh, and be on your way, um.

Speaker 3:

And so then we were back to my in-laws house and, um that my, my postpartum is unique in that I had the support of my in-laws, um, and no other children around. Um, my doula would have also been there as like kind of a house support in terms of cooking and cleaning and doing some grocery shopping, um, but given that I had my mother-in-law, I didn't need her services to that degree. But, yeah, I was lucky in that I really could just spend time with my little one and my in-laws took kind of took care of the chores of things. So I acknowledge what a luxury that is and how not common that is. So it was. So my postpartum was, was was also a little bit on cloud nine. I could just really embrace my boy did have quite a bit of reflux. He still needed the shield for about two weeks until he could suck on his own. But it, yeah, the, the, but it was. It was generally happy.

Speaker 3:

And then when he was um, it was hard cause my husband would leave. Of course he would come and go still during that time. So I remember sobbing when he would go back to England. I'm like, don't leave me, we're a family now and I'll, for all the right reasons.

Speaker 3:

It happened, um, and then probably so, when, when, when my boy was about two months old, we made the drive to England and so we drove halfway, stopped off and then finished the drive the next day and started our life on our own as a family of three in a foreign country yes, an English speaking country, but foreign nonetheless. And so that's when, I guess when, it got a bit more real, in that I was kind of figuring out life on my own life in a foreign country. I was missing Switzerland, I was missing my work colleagues. At the same time. I was so in love with experiencing childhood in my native language. I didn't realize how special that would be, and because we would start going to baby groups and sing little songs and I was meeting people in my village and it was, and getting books from the library and stuff, and it was it. It's not that it wouldn't have been as magical in German, but it just sparked those memories of my own childhood a bit more and it was just nice to kind of feel this bonding. And you know, I guess, like his birth and like the pregnancy my boy slept great. He was in his own bed by the age of two months in his own room, even really predictable feeding times.

Speaker 3:

I used a method called easy. It may be helpful for some, not for others, to kind of help structure and so yeah, I would say probably the most difficult part was just missing Switzerland and just kind of the stable life that I had there. But then in England, you know, I discovered new things. I got a new job and started working part time and he was going to nursery or kita and it was really, it was working out really, really well. And then COVID happened and then other things happened. But yeah, I would say very, very, very positive overall.

Speaker 1:

I'm really amazed, ashley. This is like such a lovely story and I just love this midwife and this doula who just has encouraged you to share this with everyone. I'm really grateful for that. Hi, I'm Julia from Happy Day and I'm here to support you in creating a peaceful, empowered birth experience. Whether you're seeking relaxation, stress reduction or effective ways to manage pain, my birth preparation course, hypnobirthing Plus, gives you the tools to feel calm, confident and prepared to tackle the unknowns surrounding birth.

Speaker 1:

Hypnobirthing Plus is a unique two-day program designed for couples who want a deeper, more personalized approach to birth preparation. In this course, we cover everything from understanding your body's physiology to mental techniques that reduce fear and boost confidence. You'll also learn practical techniques for birth partners to have a positive, empowering impact on your experience. Additionally, we dive into your rights and choices and possible interventions, ensuring you feel both well-informed and supported. The course is offered in a small group setting in Ooster, just 25 minutes from Zurich, as well as live online to give you the flexibility you need. With limited spaces available, this is the perfect opportunity to prepare for birth in a supportive, empowering environment. Spaces fill up quickly, so visit happydayhypnobirthingch today to book your spot in the next Hypnobirthing Plus course and take the first step toward a calm, confident birth. And don't forget to connect on Instagram for tips, resources and special offers. Now back to Swiss birth stories.

Speaker 2:

If you're willing. I'm curious about the second. Yeah, Just kind of how that might have been similar or different.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely Happy to go into that and yeah, thanks again for giving me the platform to share, because I think it's. I do want to honor that point of sharing positive stories around birth, but I never want it to feel like it's bragging, because again I realized there's a lot of circumstances that were just really unique, for the better and the worse, in terms of, again, that transient living. But yeah, it's really positive and I have to say my second birth also has some very transient elements to it. So I'll pick up where we left off but kind of consolidate the middle bit right. So, happy in England, covid's happening.

Speaker 3:

We're in that summer, the summer of COVID, we just pack up our things and we go straight to Switzerland and we're just like we're just going to hunker down three months in Switzerland. We're working remote anyways, there's no childcare, so at least we have my in-laws to watch our boy, cause he was just he just turned one at this point in the summer of COVID. And we also knew that we are since also knew that since our family starting our family was delayed because of infertility, we knew we wanted to try to grow our family sooner than later. So during the summer of COVID I went through three back-to-back embryo transfers and so we were staying in the mountains and I was driving to Zurich, sometimes at 5 or 6 am to make an appointment on time to do whatever to transfer an embryo. And so we had three back-to-back failures during the summer of COVID and that was really really just difficult and awful and just feeling like um one again acknowledging the luxury of having so many frozen embryos, uh, to work with Um, but um, but then also just kind of feeling just defeated and the whole world was feeling defeated at that point and a bit hopeless. Um, so it was hard.

Speaker 3:

It was hard to be in England and to go back after that summer and kind of feel like my babies were in Switzerland and this kind of access to growing our family was was inhibited. Um, now I have to try to make sure I get my timeline right. So now we're back, we're back in England, it's the it's, it's the end of 2020. Um, and we're just like, okay, just, you know, everyone take a breath right now. And then it was a year later, in 2021, that we're like, okay, let's, you know, life's a little more mobile again, let's go ahead and try to do this, this, this, this, this embryo thing, and we kind of figured out how to do it between the two countries, because my embryos were in in Switzerland and to come to Switzerland for like an extended amount of time for that whole you know two month-ish process or however long. I'm so sorry I'm forgetting, like all the all the timelines and things like that that it requires Um.

Speaker 3:

In any case, we had to do a kind of hybrid between the two countries in order to to achieve it. Um cause the transferring the embry, the embryos, was a risky idea. So we worked it out. You know how we would do this, and I actually connected with a woman in England who was kind of like this fertility coach who told me kind of how to use the medical system in England to make this happen. Without her I would have had no clue on how to coordinate this hybrid approach because I was very stuck in like this NHS world. But she was like oh no, there's this whole private world where you can go and just book an ultrasound because you want it and this is where they are. And I would have never, as a foreigner in England, I would have never known. So she was, she was the key to making this possible. So with her, we made a plan I could coordinate with my clinic in Zurich. And then we had a bit of medication left over from our summer 2020 efforts. So we were like, ok, we could actually start this now.

Speaker 3:

And a day before, two days before we were meant to kick off, I look, and the medication had meant to be kept in the fridge and it wasn't. And just shambles again. We were like all queued up but we didn't have the meds. My husband spoke to his employer and they're like, yeah, you go to Zurich and you get those meds. So we had to call our fertility clinic in Zurich, tell them what I needed. They closed at two, so my husband wouldn't have been from England to Zurich in time. So my father-in-law had to go into a fertility clinic to get the medication before two o'clock, take it to the airport. So my husband I'm not making this isn't making very much sense. My husband flies from England, my father-in-law picks up the meds, my husband and then my father-in-law goes to the airport. They meet, my husband collects the meds and flies back in the same day to bring me this fertility meds that we needed to kick off our cycle in England. It happened, hooray.

Speaker 3:

So start the injection, start preparing things, and so part of this process is they have to check the growth of your lining and you need like a baseline assessment and then there's kind of this building up of your uterine lining and then a follow-up assessment. So I had had the first ultrasound, everything was good. I sent it to my clinic. They're like, you know, great, good, great. And then it came time for the second measurement, to see how robust that the uterine lining had developed.

Speaker 3:

And the day before the clinic I had booked with said we're sorry, your clinician will not be available to run your ultrasound rebook. And I said I need it on this day because this, this and this I need, this is time sensitive, this isn't a luxury booking, you know, just to check on the health of my baby. And they're like well, you can go to London, and which would have been an hour and a half commute. And and I was, you know, of course, working on this behind the scenes, my employer wasn't necessarily aware and so, yeah, so it was. It was crazy. And so then this woman who my kind of, my fertility coach in England, she was like oh, there's actually a clinic like five minutes away from you in a different network that we weren't looking at before. I don't know why it wasn't on our radar, it doesn't matter. I call them and I'm like guys, this is the situation. And they said you are in luck, we have an opening, someone canceled, you can come in. And I was just was like what is happening? Perfect timing, crazy, crazy, whatever. So I was able to go in and get this last minute booking Uterine lining is amazing Sent that off to our clinic in Zurich and they're like yep, you're ready.

Speaker 3:

So then, as a family, we flew over to Zurich um, this is November 2021 now and um had our embryo transfer and just kind of like, took it easy. I remember my husband and I went to this Thai restaurant. We were just chill about it and um, and it was really so, I should say. Though, during the so, um, during the embryo transfer, though, I should say, they take the embryos and they defrost them, you know, and the one died the morning of. So they had to get a second one and it died five minutes before the transfer was supposed to happen. So they got a third one out, and again, I completely acknowledge how nice it is that we had so many embryos queued up to go and so they do the transfer and it's you know, when they do it they put you under, but they kind of let you come out a little bit, make sure you're still there. So I don't know what's going on. But my husband says they asked you once what you're doing and you said I'm hugging. And they said what are you hugging? I said myself. So I take it to mean I was feeling very kind of cocooned or maybe taken care of, that I was hugging myself through this embryo transfer experience.

Speaker 3:

But yeah, in any case went in and did the transfer and then kind of relaxing and recovering afterwards, and the embryologist I'm not exactly sure what her role is, but she came in and she told us a little story. It starts. She told us a little story about the embryo she chose. She said this is the embryo from your very first cycle and it was the only one. And I looked at him and I said I think that's the little embryo and that's the little embryo that grew into my second boy. And we like to say you know that he's actually older than his brother because he was created first. He was created in February and his brother was created in July, even though the July baby was born first, the February baby was born next.

Speaker 3:

But it was quite special to know that our first cycle of IVF, that was so terrible, actually had a really positive outcome with the one little embryo that was there. So, yeah, so that was kind of special because you don't necessarily get these sorts of personal stories as personal as an embryo can be, you don't really get these personal stories in the medical. These are medical professionals. They're just there to deliver. So the fact that there was this little human element that she was able to bring was super touching.

Speaker 3:

Come on little embryo and um, you know, had gone back to england and we're just trying to be like as chill as possible and um, and then, yeah, it happened, we had that positive result. I didn't even go for a blood test necessarily, normally with ivf they would confirm with a blood test, but just given the distance and things, I, um, I just, you know, did the traditional method in my bathroom with a stick and um, yeah, just, really, just kind of stayed, really grounded and just kind of, you know, anything could still happen, but thankfully it was very much like my first pregnancy in terms of minimal nausea. Just, you know, fix it with ginger and sucking on whatever, and then told my employer was really open that you know it was very likely that we would move back to Switzerland at some point during my maternity leave, because in England your maternity leave can be up to one year. So again, another luxury that I got to experience. So, yeah, so it was really open with them and we kind of had said like, okay, gosh, you know, I'm doing a professional apprenticeship, that's so. So at the time I'm I'm working for three and a half days, we have our boy, um, I'm pregnant, we, um, I was doing this, um, you know, um, continuing education to get my, my coaching qualification, and we were about to have a baby and we were like, okay, let, okay, let's just have the baby here in England and then we'll worry about moving back to Switzerland in that timeframe. Because it just feels like way too much. All these things were going to happen in a two to three month period.

Speaker 3:

And, given my first story, you guys know what's coming, don't you? We decided in May that, yeah, let's just move back to Switzerland, let's do it. So here's the run up for the second baby. We were kind of having these struggles with our landlord not terrible, but just kind of to where my husband was like we should just move now. And we kind of went, yeah, for reals, okay, like this could happen. So we made it happen. So in May we made the decision. In June we, um, you know, kind of had the evaluation with the moving company that was going to come and pack everything in for us and then we you know that's when does take took a 10, 10 day trip to the new forest in England, um, to kind of enjoy that. My in-laws came over as well to help us and I also finished my coaching qualification, did all the exams, remotely from the New Forest in our vacation house there completed it with distinction.

Speaker 3:

Thank you very much. But then in any case, yeah, may we decide June. We have, like our final hurrahs in England, finished my apprenticeship in July, then I drive with my in-laws back and my boy back to Switzerland. So we're now living again at my in-laws in Switzerland in June. My husband's still in England getting things packed in with the movers that was early July. Then he's back in Switzerland, our stuff is in storage and we're just waiting for baby number two to come and then, kind of, you know, we'll let that happen until we figure out you know what does it mean to to to, to, you know, set up our lives permanently again in Switzerland and my husband was working remote again and his employer had agreed to kind of help him transition his contract to a Swiss contract. So it was really nice that we could come back and then also have employment when we came back in a place to land, and again totally recognizing the beauty and the simplicity that this circumstance allowed for. So now it comes time for baby number two to come along.

Speaker 3:

But I was back at Bethesda and so I felt really comfortable, familiar with that, I brought over all my NHS documents and so was really on board and, yeah, registered back in Switzerland ready to give birth, and it was, like I said, it was a bit of the same sort of thing. I was doing my dance and it felt time, time. And so when we show up at Vitezda and they're like, yep, you're ready to go, and I'm like I'm ready to go, let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. I see some doctors and then things kind of stopped and, um, it was like no, like it's supposed to be going, we're supposed to be progressing. And I kind of had this extreme lull, even to where the doctor that was on shift when I arrived came back eight hours later and was like you're still here. I'm like, yeah, it's still here, but it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't like full on labor that whole time. It was a little bit. It was light, there was some evidence that like things were progressing and then stopped. And so when it got to the evening, I tried water birth, I had a meal, you know, like it was all these things, and I'm very like you know, I know what I'm doing, I know what I'm doing, you know, given air quotes there, and and so then it was kind of progressing toward the evening and they're like, okay, we need to like move this along.

Speaker 3:

And so they kind of broke my, my, my, my sack to kind of stimulate hormones to be released so that the baby would come. And that was brought on loads of contractions but not a lot of movement. And they're like what's going on? And I was listening to music. At some point I called my parents and I'm like you know, I'm like it's kind of happening, but it's not happening. And so then they kind of realized that my baby had he was face down, he was head down but facing up, and so he had changed position in a way that he was now stuck.

Speaker 3:

So it was like labor had progressed and it was time for it to continue, but he wasn't in the position to make it happen smoothly. So they actually were like okay, you need a rest, because at this point after they broke the sack, it kicked off and my body was like go, go, go, go. But baby were like okay, you need a rest, because at this point after they broke the sack, it like kicked off and like my body was like go, go, go go. But baby was like stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck. So they gave me an epidural for the sake of just giving me a break, and that was welcomed. In that sense it felt a bit frustrating because it's like I kind of knew I could do it and I wanted to do it that way. But you know, just flexibility in the situation. So then that was a different way of giving birth, because then I was laying down, my legs were jelly but I was, you know, a little bit more, I guess, talking through it.

Speaker 3:

And it was quite funny because at one point, you know, when the baby's coming, they ask you like he's here, do you want to touch his head? And I'm like, with my first one, I'm like yes, sure. With my second, I'm like nope, I don't want to move from this position, I'm set, I'm like a gun, ready to go, like I'm just holding this bam, you know. And so he, um, he arrives. And it's quite funny because one came out quiet and little, you know, cuddly thing, and he comes out, I kid you not like this, full big eyes, hands streached, that he latched immediately. He was like ready to suck. No tongue tied, still, no evidence of tongue tying. He's a loud little one.

Speaker 3:

And so then, yeah, then I was, then I, you know, given that, so you know, the medical staff had said to me like we were convinced that you were mentally blocking yourself somehow and that's why your pregnancy wasn't progressing. But now we realize, okay, it was because the baby was in the wrong position. And I feel like, I feel like they checked me when I arrived but there maybe wasn't the follow-up. I don't know, I'm not, I'm not at all resentful because just too many things happened. There's too many variables in this experience. But I do regret that my doula couldn't have been there, cause I, I'm convinced that she would have probed or asked questions or done something different. Really that my husband and I just kind of in the although we trusted the medical professionals again, like I think that there could, she could have seen or said, advocated somehow, cause I would have never thought of it oh, have you checked his position? And at some point towards the end they were like, let's do an ultrasound. And they're like, oh, okay, here's what's going on. So, um, so, yeah, so it was a bit of a different birth, but I wouldn't I w I still wouldn't categorize it as like negative or that I was felt harmed or done to or whatever. I think for me it was still extremely positive in that sense, just packaged differently.

Speaker 3:

And then I had my own hospital room. My family didn't stay with me, of course, having the one at home, but I actually only stayed two days because I was feeling lonely and I was missing the rest of my family and we had been getting along well, me and the new little one. And it was quite sweet because my older boy, he says I want to bring the baby home and show my cousins. So it was quite sweet that everyone kind of wanted that feeling of being together. So I ended up going back to my in-laws and at this time there were about 10 people living in the house. So it's a very big house Again luxury, I know, because we had family. We had two sets of family visiting from America and then, of course, my family of four, and so we had kind of like the apartment, half of the house where it was nice and quiet.

Speaker 3:

But I had someone say to me like how did you manage, like bringing a baby home to such an active house with other kids? And honestly I didn't think anything of it, I think, knowing that there was so much support and that my older boy had someone to play with and that there was all the other house admin support. It was again that really magical moment where I could kind of just focus a lot on my baby and I did, and he was different in so many accounts of not the same kind of sleeper he would. He was a bit more chatty, he was, he was all kinds of things and, in the best ways you know, just more animated, just just a lot more to say, you know, and a lot more to express and a lot more to express and and yeah, it was, it was that same sort of, I guess, postpartum experience, having had so much support and that was so. He was born in the summer months and then we found a place to move ourselves in the fall winter and by the end of 2022, we were living back in Zurich again, a family of four, and kind of finding our way. And I have to say there's probably more adjustment.

Speaker 3:

With the second one, I think I was, I was actually mourning England, moving away from England, and the friends and the networks that I developed there. The job that I had was quite exceptional and it was this funny thing about being back in Switzerland and I should know what I'm doing, but it being feeling foreign and I wasn't just me anymore. I was me and a mom, you know, and a mom of two and I. And so there was a lot of trying to understand what was England, what I was processing my experience and what was. Because it was England, it was easier, it was English, I had my patterns down versus like, oh, it's second kid, it's Switzerland.

Speaker 3:

So there was so, I have to say, probably the second one in terms of postpartum emotional management was more tricky, but there was more more to the situation altogether. And then, of course, you know, finding employment again and thinking about how that would look. But yeah, physically both my postpartums were quite manageable, healed the way I should, and yeah, there was just all the transient, I guess, side effects of moving between countries, while having IVF babies was probably the biggest thing to manage during my postpartum, but now settled, happy, building a business and really, really grateful for the two little creatures that IVF has provided us, as much as the international experience and kind of what we're able to share and talk about as a family of you know, life in england, life in switzerland, life in basel, um, and just, yeah, just exceptional to think about all the people that it takes to make a baby, at least ours I I think that your story is really exceptional because on paper, you have, you know, difficulty conceiving.

Speaker 1:

you have repeated loss, you have partner not always present, you have moving between countries. When you look at this on paper, um, this sounds extraordinarily stressful and hearing your story, it's full of lightness and it's full of recognition, of gratitude, and it is really exceptional and I'm really grateful to hear this story.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, great. Well, yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad that I can share it and I truly believe that, yeah, like I just said, it's it is. It is stressful, but it was manageable with the village, the village of people behind us. And I should even add, when our moving van arrived in England, our flight had been delayed so we weren't even there to receive it. But a neighbor that we had met casually in the hall two months earlier was there and she was actually helping the movers move our stuff into our house and she's of German descent so she could read all the German labeling on the boxes to be able to say, oh, this goes into that room, that goes into that room. But yeah, she was also one of those instrumental angels in making all this possible.

Speaker 3:

So the power of connection really goes a long way and, yeah, it's part of what makes this possible and I hope that the listeners today can get that sense of what it means to not be alone in this journey. Yes, you're experiencing pregnancy and birth extremely firsthand. It's your body, but there's other people that are still connected with you in that experience and want to support you. So just always know that you have that village behind you. And if you don't find it, there's people out there who want to help you and support you. So just always know that you have that village behind you, and if you don't find it, there's people out there who want to help you and support you.

Speaker 1:

Wow, Ashley, I have so enjoyed listening to the story about you and your family. Is there anything else that you wanted to add for our listeners?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean I guess you know I mentioned that there's kind of the community that surrounds an experience like giving birth. And, as I kind of stop and reflect on just some little tidbits that could be interesting, where my two babies were born, in the Ptes de Spital in Basel actually my father-in-law was also born there, so it was kind of this special sort of family connection. I guess Not that anyone that was there at the time of his birth had anything to do with my births, but that was just kind of a unique little family signature. And my doula I mentioned her quite a bit. She was actually I was only her second family that she doula'd. We were actually part of her training. So because she worked with our family, she was actually able to complete her doula certification. And so I just think that's just this, another component of what it means to bring a baby in the world and the impact, the ripple effect it has on the people that are involved.

Speaker 3:

About the people involved you asked a bit about how it was postpartum for me and I mentioned how my mother-in-law was so present. And you think about that like a baby's born, you bring in the meals, you're checking in on someone those first couple of months, but it's a whole longer process, this whole settling in and life with a baby. I've heard some estimates it's up to two years and I was lucky to not only have my mother-in-law when my babies were immediately born, but my own mom. She was there as part of that whole extended settling in and I think I mentioned that because I want to send the message that it's okay that after you go through this birthing experience, that three, four, five, six, 10 months later you're still like what's happening to me, because a lot is still happening with you and it's okay to not be okay at that phase. It's not just about the first few months that you could need a community, need support. So just, I'm sharing that more to give you that thought that awareness piece.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, julia, I think that a lot of the process of postpartum, and also of being a parent, is that it's not linear Like you tend to think. In your more naive sort of state you think, well, things go step by step by step to ease or relaxation or whatever it is, but actually it's often not linear. There are these peaks and these troughs where you really need that support, and I'm really happy you bring that up because that can really catch people off guard when you know their baby is eight months old and suddenly they're finding that they need just as much support as they did, maybe in the early weeks, for example. And then when they're a few years old, oh, they're at school but they're sick and they might need some support then. And then times when things are just, you know, coasting and going really, really well.

Speaker 2:

So I think that that's a really important piece to bring up, and at that point usually people have stopped bringing meals and stopped checking in, and so yeah, thanks.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely and really really valid points. And I think you know, as, as adults, you know, our life is kind of linear in some ways we go to school, we go there, we get married, we buy a house, whatever, and then suddenly, yeah, you throw kids in the mix and they're just doing whatever the heck they want to do when they want to do it. So, absolutely, and in your professions you know that, you know really really well. I did think, and just sorry to just go back to your last question, your first question, sorry, julia, if there's anything else that I would share and I think I want to share, it's a few years out from having our baby, so a little bit beyond the birth stories, but more about my fertility story, and I think it's an important part of how a fertility story ends and doesn't end. I don't know. You're so involved in this conscious effort of creating these beings that you sometimes have the conscious decision to stop creating them.

Speaker 3:

And so for us, we were very lucky, through our two fresh IVF cycles, to have had a doubleit number of embryos to work with. And yes, as I told you, we lost many, many along the way, but even still, even the ones that we lost and the two that are now alive, and little humans. There was one that we had to make a choice about whether to transfer it or to send it on its way, and we thought along about what was right for our family, what our family plans were, had we not had infertility, almost if we had not had the choice of an offering on the table. So we considered our options, and one there was kind of an in-between option called a compassionate transfer, which I think is important to mention for anyone who finds themselves in this situation where you can transfer an unused embryo I don't know the right word for it, but you can transfer it for the sake of it, having had the experience of being in your body, finding its way to wherever embryos go when they're not used. We did not choose that option, but it is an option that's out there. We just simply chose to let our little life, energy, as I like to think of it, find its way to another family and hopefully bless them with the babies, the family, the love that they might want.

Speaker 3:

And so I just I say that because anyone who's on this infertility journey or have had struggles or whatever sort of issues with conception or delivery or whatever. Just I go back to this kind of we're all connected. Try to think of it as it's not something for you but it could be something for someone else and it could impact them and where they're at in their journey. And I guess I'm getting a little bit metaphorical here, but I think sometimes you have to think about that in this complex world.

Speaker 3:

And yeah, that's maybe a bit of a mic drop there for the end of your podcast, but I just want to thank you again so much for the opportunity to share the story. I hope it's meaningful for your audience and I make myself available. I know you'll include my contact details, but I am over the moon to connect with anyone going through birth or particularly infertility, because it can be a more lonely place than you realize and sometimes it helps to have that person who gets it. So I just raised my hand to say find me, I'll talk to you. It speaks to what I do professionally as much as what I'd like to give back to based on what I've experienced and how I can hopefully share and benefit others. So yeah, just thanks again for the opportunity.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for making that available. That'll be very helpful, I'm sure, to others who are going through that, and I think it can be difficult to find resources, so having a starting point for somebody you can reach out to is going to be very helpful. Thank you, ashley.

Speaker 1:

We have one last question that we always ask our guests, and that is in this whole process, what is one sort of brilliant moment that you would love to share with everyone?

Speaker 3:

A brilliant moment. It's funny, I feel like the brilliant moment is somehow in the pictures that I can look back on and remember the moment. So it's amazing how quickly either you're lost in the moment or I should say, my doula wrote down. She gave me a 10-page report of what she recorded from my birth. She gave me a 10 page report of what she recorded from my birth, um, and had I not had that, I would have not had the same level of recollection. Recollection, um, given that she documented everything so thoroughly.

Speaker 3:

And that was that was something else I really valued from having her. It's because I could actually, in a weird way, go back in time and experience it from a third person view rather than just being lost in it. So I think that's what I mean is like when I say, when, I say when I, when I look at the pictures of my boy on my chest, that's my special moment because I'm seeing it and feeling it again and remembering it. So it's, it's a, it's a it's. I realize it's a strange way to answer your question, but somehow it's the. The evidence of what happened is what I find so special, because it lets me go back in time and feel it, not just try to remember it. Thank you, that was great Cool.

Speaker 1:

I'll leave it at that. Thank you All right. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. So much for tuning into another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow, so please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents-to-be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it, and be sure to follow us on social media at Swiss Birth Stories for even more tips, resources and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and birth stories too. And events We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and birth stories too, so feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, swissbirthstoriescom, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning and keep connecting with each other.

People on this episode

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Julia Neale

Host
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Christine Bliven

Co-host