Swiss Birth Stories
Our mission is to share diverse birth stories from across Switzerland in a way that empowers the storyteller. We aim to create a supportive space where each person is in control of their own narrative. By recording and sharing birth stories in Switzerland, we hope to inspire those planning their own birth, offer insights for birth workers, or allow listeners to reflect on their own birth experiences. Tune in to hear real, personal, raw birth stories. Available on all major podcast platforms. This podcast is in seasons; during an active season, episodes will be released weekly.
Swiss Birth Stories
Rossana: Birth Centre to Hospital Transfer. A Journey into the Unexpected
Rossana's resources are below this description.
The ultimate plan-maker meets the ultimate plan-changer: motherhood. Rosanna's journey reveals what happens when our carefully crafted expectations collide with the unpredictable reality of bringing life into the world. Rosanna shares her powerful journey through pregnancy, birth, and postpartum, revealing how she learned to flow when her carefully made plans took unexpected turns. Her birth took place at the Zollikerberg Birth Centre and Spital Zollikerberg.
• Originally from Italy and living in Switzerland for 10 years
• Works as an HR manager, motherhood coach and co-owns a yoga and meditation studio
• Experienced unexpected challenges during conception despite having meticulously planned timing
• Enjoyed a peaceful pregnancy but struggled with the fear of birth in the final weeks
• Went nearly two weeks over her estimated due date and tried everything to naturally induce labor
• Planned for a birth centre delivery but ended up transferring to the hospital
• Found unexpected peace and surrender during birth despite it not matching her original plan
• Faced significant breastfeeding challenges that weren't properly diagnosed for EIGHT months, once she found the right lactation consultant
• Advocating for more comprehensive preparation around breastfeeding and postpartum
• Still breastfeeding her daughter at 10 months after persevering through extreme difficulties
• Discovered that motherhood, despite its challenges, brings daily moments of connection and joy that make it all worthwhile
Connect with us at swissbirthstories.com or on Instagram @swissbirthstories to share your thoughts and experiences.
Rossana's resources:
Elevate website www.elevate-studio.ch instagram: @elevate_studio_zurich
http://onerisingsoul.com Her private website is where Rossana focuses on 1:1 coaching for mothers instagram: @coachingmothers
Hypnobirthing course:
Meal deliery:
Mamasmeals Switzerand
Lactation Consultant:
https://milkandmotherhood.com/
The Zollikerberg Hospital:
https://spitalzollikerberg.ch/en/specialist-areas/obstetrics
And the Zollikerberg Birth center:
https://geburtshaus-zollikerberg.ch/en/ and Delphys birth centre
https://www.delphys.ch
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https://julianeale.substack.com/
Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neale, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach and trainee doula.
Christine Bliven:And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three.
Julia Neale:Today we are talking with Rosanna. Rosanna talks about so much in this episode, but mostly on how to flow when labor, birth and postpartum take a course that you didn't plan for. She talks about the preparation tools, experts and skills that she drew upon to cope, manage and thrive during the stages of her motherhood. So far,
Julia Neale:julia here, it's my mission over at Happy Day to mentor and support you in creating a pregnancy, birth and postpartum experience that is empowering, holistic and uniquely tailored to your needs. Together, we'll uncover the tools and knowledge you need to thrive with confidence, mindfulness and self-compassion at the core of your journey. That's the reason why I offer my three hallmark courses to parents in person in the Zurich area and online. They are Hypnobirthing Plus Mindful Postpartum Preparation and Hypnobirthing for Planned Caesarean Birth. Check out my website, happydayhypnobirthingch, or Instagram at happydaybumpsbabesbeyond, for more details, useful content and support. Now on to this week's Swiss birth story.
Christine Bliven:Hello Rosanna, Thanks for joining us.
Rossana:Hello, both so happy to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
Christine Bliven:Would you start off by just telling us about you, about your family, where you're from?
Rossana:Sure. So yeah, my name is Rosanna. I'm originally from Italy, but I've been living and traveling all over the world I would since I was 11. I've been living and studying now in Switzerland since 10 years, in Zurich since 7, 8. I have a wonderful 10-month daughter, aurora, and I'm living with my partner and her in a beautiful apartment outside Zurich nature and I'm an HR manager for profession. But I also have a yoga and meditation studio together with my business partner in Zurich. It's called Elevate Studio. And then I also do some coaching for mothers everything around motherhood topic.
Julia Neale:Oh, fantastic. Thank you for that introduction. Could we talk about your pregnancy then, with your daughter? How did you feel in your pregnancy?
Rossana:Yeah. So kind of really going back to the first milestone, conception, I'm a person that tends to control everything in life. I have a very can-do attitude and you know, when I plan things I want them to happen at a certain time, when I want them to happen how I want them to happen. And so conception itself was for me like a huge learning process. So I made this whole plan. I was like I wanted to get pregnant in June, so the birth happens like in early spring, so my postpartum is not so hard, like I planned everything.
Rossana:And yeah, the first time that we tried didn't happen. Second time didn't happen, and my mind really got kind of crazy and obviously I knew, you know, that trying for at least a year is totally normal from a scientific perspective. But there was a very deep emotional part within me that just didn't accept that and didn't understand why it was not happening to me. And again, we just literally tried two times, but it was enough for my mind to just go crazy, go crazy, um. And then, yeah, we talked to um, a new gynecologist, and we also realized that the way we're trying, like the timing, was not a good one. We're trying like before ovulation, and then we, we got to learn that actually the ovulation day is the best and all this lh strip and a bunch of tips and um and so on. The third time we tried and I got pregnant and when I took the test that morning I was just like crying so much because I felt like a very heavy burden being lifted from my shoulders and my heart, because I've been feeling this soul since many, many months and I really wanted to be a mom this soul since many, many months, and I really wanted to be a mom and so even just the thought of not being able to welcome her was unbearable for me. So when I got pregnant it was just a beautiful relief, beautiful joy, and I have to say, somehow from that day onwards I didn't have fears, which was unusual.
Rossana:I think I had so much anxiety and fear before around conception. Then, when it happened, I was just like okay, like everything is going to be fine, and so throughout my pregnancy I very rarely had anxiety about the future or like how it's going to be. I think I was more in this very positive kind of unicorn bubble. I was connecting a lot with baby. Obviously, the first trimester was a bit tough. I had a lot of nausea, but I was lucky enough to have a job that allowed me to be home and to rest a lot and to just again be in my cozy bubble uh, wintry bubble, um, yeah, so, and I think I just enjoyed so much pregnancy. I remember this feeling of being very grounded, very calm, very connected to my body, connected to baby. I was doing like a lot of meditations and yoga and really try to spend each day in a very conscious way. I was also going to different retreats, so I have a very, very beautiful memory of pregnancy.
Rossana:I have to say, towards the last part of pregnancy, I think the fear of birth creeped in for sure, and that was also a big process which then eventually led me to Julia, your course, the hypnobirthing course, because I realized somehow the body was doing everything like physically I was fine. It was more my mind and my emotional state that was like really interfering with the whole flow, well, with the whole experience. And so for me I realized, okay, I really need to take care of my inner state to to be able to, to have a birth, that I want to be able also to show up how I wanted to show up for for my daughter and for myself and for my partner, for our family, um and um, a very, very challenging part of pregnancy was really the last two weeks. So I was two weeks overdue and that really felt like, um, yeah, super tough waiting um, the mind really went crazy, um, especially because I kind of hyped myself and trained myself to imagine, to think of this beautiful natural birth, and so even the thought of being induced, needing to go to a hospital, was like the worst case scenario for me and that created so much anxiety, so much fear to um, to the point that I really tried everything that I could to naturally induce um labor, um, and so that was, I would say, the very challenging part of pregnancy. I have to say more again from a mental perspective yeah and yeah, yeah and yeah, talking about those two weeks, so my, my, my plan was to give birth, um in the birth center, uh, in soliketberg, uh, the new one that was um just open, I think last year or two years ago, um, and I had made this plan of like extremely natural birth with hypnobirthing, breathing, uh, water birth, um, and I had kind of all again figure it out in my head and then, when the, the due date came, I was like, okay, it's not today, okay it's not tomorrow, and like it was really this waiting game.
Rossana:Um, that was super hard for me, um, and also, obviously there was a certain pressure from the outside in the sense of, like you know, starting to do, um, all these scans and kind of understanding how baby is developing. There's enough, um, water, um, already talking about possible options. But I think for me, the the highest pressure was really the one I was putting onto myself because I almost felt I need to achieve this goal of natural birth and if it's not happening, it's almost like a failure for me. And I really prepared myself for so many months. I did all the meditations, all the stretching, all the pelvic floor massage, all the epinol exercises, like I really did it all, basically, and I thought, okay, if I do this, then the result is going to be the one that I want. And that didn't happen in a certain sense and happen in a certain sense. So it's quite funny because I remember, julia, I took this art therapy session with you about birth and how I was envisioning birth, and I looked it up again and what I wrote was like mainly how I wanted to feel during birth, and so I wanted to feel like a strong connection with my partner, I wanted to feel softness, I wanted to feel calm.
Rossana:I wanted to feel calm, I wanted to feel silence and in the end, that's actually the experience that I had, just not with the external circumstances that I thought would bring those feelings.
Rossana:Meaning, you know, in the end we ended up in the hospital in Solikon, solikerberg, and I ended up with a epidural, which is also something that I was super against, but then my inner state was the one that I had written down, and so to me, this is like the learning of this whole experience in the sense, sense of like it's good to have a vision, it's good to work, to do everything you can to to achieve, let's say, that vision, but there is also a certain point where you have to let go and you have to accept and trust and flow with it and also also figure out how much judgments you have.
Rossana:Certain things. Um, I was really like dividing, polarizing, like the birth center is a good thing and the hospital is a bad thing, the natural birth is a good thing and the induction as a bad thing, and and this polarization really caused me a lot of suffering, I have to say, because in the end, like I said, we were in a setting that I thought would be the worst case scenario but actually turns out to be the best case scenario for us and the baby, and I still managed to feel the way I wanted to feel during my birth, so to me this was like a huge, huge learning process again considering my, my personality.
Julia Neale:Yeah um, I I remember the birth art session we did and, if I'm remembering correctly, you titled it. We flow together.
Rossana:Yes, exactly, yeah oh, that's amazing.
Julia Neale:I am curious then did you experience spontaneous labor?
Rossana:I mean, it depends how you consider. So I really tried everything in those two weeks. I tried acupuncture, acupressure, reflexology, um, a bunch of herbs dates like, uh, chinese herbs like everything. A bunch of herbs dates like, uh, chinese herbs like everything. And then, um, on the morning of the 11th day because that was the last day that we could have given birth uh, at the, at the birth center, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna give you the last shot, and I took a castor oil cocktail in the morning, like 6 am, and then, I think around 1, the labor started. So I don't know if there was like a correlation, so it was natural in a way, but definitely kind of pushed.
Julia Neale:You gave her encouragement, but at the end of the day, you don't, we don't know maybe that was exactly the day that she was supposed to come yeah, exactly like really.
Rossana:I mean, we really don't know that's amazing.
Julia Neale:It's such a lesson in um in parenting as well where we we do all these things and create all this environment, and really sometimes they show us.
Rossana:Exactly Different ways and yeah it's what we need actually.
Julia Neale:Yes, and it's amazing to notice that in yourself when it's when it's like actually I needed this lesson for who knows whatever reason. Yeah, so could. Could you walk us through your labor with her?
Rossana:Yes, so, um, yeah, like I said, uh, 11 day overdue. Um, the morning I woke up 6 AM. I was like I'm going to take this, um castor oil thing with apricot juice and like, um, almond butter or something like that. I found a recipe online, um, and I didn't. Then I went back to bed, um, and then we had a scan, a CTG scan, uh, in the birth center, uh, scheduled for, I think, noon. So we went to there and that's when I felt like, okay, the contractions are kind of starting. And I remember walking out of the birth center and I felt like, okay, like now I really need to breathe through the contractions. And it was so funny. I really have to like remember this moment because I obsessed so much for like two weeks of like, oh my gosh, I really want to be in labor.
Rossana:Then, when labor started, I didn't feel grateful. I was just like something switched inside me. I was like, okay, that's it, I just need to bring my full attention to myself and just kind of zoom in and let everything out and kind of flow with this process. So then we went back home, we had some late lunch and I prepared. I have a like little practice room where I practice yoga and meditation and so I made that super cozy for my, for my labor. So I was there and breathing and I started right away to listen to the hypnobirthing meditations that you gave us, julia, and that I rehearsed a lot in the previous month and that really helped me. That was all about softening and releasing and, yeah, just like calming down, and I felt really confident in the process.
Rossana:I remember I was before really afraid of labor, afraid of pain, also considering my family history my mom to labor is really traumatic and somehow I realized that the cells still had that memory of my own birth that I was maybe projecting onto my daughter's birth, and so there was a lot of fear around labor. But in that moment, when contraction started, I just felt really empowered with all the tools that Julia you gave us and the meditations and the breathing exercises that I was like, no, okay, I'm gonna do it, you know. And as soon as I felt the mind was drifting a bit away or kind of bringing some negative thoughts, I was really able to always bring it back and that was my practice throughout the whole labor, which in total was like 19 hours. So it was quite a long, long marathon. But yeah, then it was evening and I went to the bathtub and we called the midwife. And you know, just do a check-in. And the cool thing about this birth center is that they have a special system for which you're kind of guided and supported by the same midwives throughout pregnancy, during labor and after birth, and so the midwives even come to your place. So after a while we felt like, okay, it's time to call her. I felt like it would be so good to have somebody here to just make me feel even more comfortable, because I remember, towards the late evening the contractions were really somehow intense, like there was no break between contractions. I remember my partner was, like you know, with a timer next to me and they were like there's really no break in between. So it was quite, quite intense.
Rossana:The first part of labor was definitely intense, but again, I think I managed really to hold on to my practice and to to not allow the mind to come in. And so then the midwife came. She checked me. I was like four centimeters dilated, which was super good news. And then we continue a bit there. My partner was massaging a lot, I was moving, I had the birthing ball, different options. It felt cozy to be at home and it was, you know, getting darker. It was very nice.
Rossana:And then, after maybe like a one hour or two, she checked me again. I was around seven centimeters dilated, and so I was like, wow, it's happening, you know it's happening Like I want. And. And so I was like, wow, it's happening, you know it's happening like I want. And. And so she was like I think we should go to the birth center. Um, and also there one of my biggest fear I don't know why, but it was the transition from the house to the birth center my mind just made all these projections of like how hard it's going to be on the car, in the traffic, like you know, the worst case scenario.
Rossana:And then it turned out to be super pleasant, like my midwife was driving and my partner was next to me, and I think I probably entered the new phase while I was in the car, where the contractions were more regular, and I also felt this peak in between contractions of like kind of pleasure and relaxation, which was really nice. So we arrived there very fast and then I went into the bathtub they have a beautiful bathtub at the birth center and, yeah, I just waited and I felt like, okay, it's, you know, it's progressing well, um. And then she checked me again after maybe one or two hours and she noticed I I was not, you know, progressing in the, in the dilation, um, and she also told me that my daughter's head would not was not exactly on the cervix, but there was a lot of water, like the water cushion between her head and the cervix. My water didn't break, um, and so she was like, hey, okay, let's, let's see, let's wait. We waited a couple of hours, need you know.
Rossana:Needless to say, it was super intense, obviously, but again, at that time I was still like I can do it, like I was still in charge of the process, yeah, and then she checked again and basically, again I stopped dilating. And so that's when she suggested to move to the hospital, because her idea was that baby was not positioned perfectly and the water didn't break. She couldn't break the water sack, obviously, in the birth center, and so she said you better go to the hospital. And in that moment I felt absolute trust to the hospital. Somehow it was like that's the right decision. You know, I've I gave 100%. I cannot do it after after this point, and so we transitioned to the hospital.
Rossana:Again, she drove us, but it was literally just a two-minute drive, which is also cool about this other birth center, and then, yeah, we entered the birthing room there and I think there that's the moment where I kind of a bit crashed mentally especially. I was like this is really so intense and I think the fact of like having been in labor for such a long time and knowing that I was not opening up somehow, it really did something to my mind, like to my mindset. I was like, oh, I'm putting so much effort to keep it all together but it's not working or it's not progressing, let's say like that. So as soon as I arrived at the hospital, I had a little crash and I noticed that's when the pain, the physical pain, became not unbearable but like much stronger. And so I it was super interesting to see if, when I was able to kind of calm myself down and take a hold on the mind, the physical pain was much more bearable. But as soon as I I lost it somehow, then also the physical pain became really, yeah, really hard.
Rossana:So when I was there there, I asked for the epidural because I felt like, you know, I'm really at at the end, um, and and this for me was like an extremely beautiful experience, I have to say, the people there, starting from the midwife, the anesthesia anesthesiologist, um, the doctors, the junior doctor, the junior doctor, the senior doctor, like everybody were just angels, like they were so sweet, so caring, so loving. I somehow had portrayed people working in a hospital as very hostile. I don't know why I had this, maybe because I heard certain stories, but for me the experience at the hospital was incredible. Um, everybody was treating me with such care. Um, they also, you know, use alternative treatments as well, like homeopathy or like acupuncture, and like I didn't feel pressure at all.
Rossana:Um, and, obviously, when I received the PDA, I could relax fully mentally, especially, and that's when they did a scan with the baby and they confirmed that baby was not in the perfect position. She was a bit twisted, and so what they did was they put me in a position and they did something, some maneuvers with a cloth, which also showed the expertise I have to say that they had there, and so they let me wait for like maybe one or two hours to make sure that baby would move naturally in that position, and then they check again and baby was in a good position. So then they broke the amniotic sac and then it was like this whole stream of water came out and I felt such a good relief and there we just, and then we just waited. Basically I arrived at the hospital, I think, at 6 am and the baby was born at 3 pm. So this is also something I heard a bit unusual.
Rossana:I don't know why it happened with us, but the doctors allowed us to wait without putting any pressure. They really, I think, wanted to make it as natural as possible. There was a moment where they told me okay, in the next two hours you're not fully dilated. Then we unfortunately have to do a c-section. And there I remember myself. I was in this room like, and my mind just stopped talking. There was no fears, there were no anxieties, there were no rush anticipations, like nothing. It was just like complete silence, which is the experience that I wanted to have. Right, and also this complete openness and trust and surrender. I think that's the right word. Surrender, I think that's the right word.
Rossana:Surrender to whatever the process wanted to be, and that was the state that I wish I would have had honestly, during the two weeks overdue, and because that state is beautiful, like it allows you to flow with whatever external experience you're having without getting traumatized by it, without leaving any traces behind, because you know it's okay, like whatever happens is okay. As long as baby and me are healthy, everything is fine. And you kind of suddenly drop all the expectations and the plans and the judgments that you had. And I think that also really impacted the body, because I was in such a relaxed and trusting state that I was like okay, I'm fine with natural birth, I'm fine with C-section right now, but really, truly like completely embodying it, and I think that was a good thing for the body to know. Okay, I can just open up and it's okay. And so an hour later they checked me again and it was completely open. And then they it was also such a beautiful moment Like they call all the doctors inside and there were probably 10 people, 10 women, and everybody was just so happy for me that I didn't have to do a C-section. They were cheering me up, they were like clapping hands, they were, they were like really my team and instead of being like my enemy, you know, and that was a beautiful feeling. I was a bit like shocked, um, uh, and it gave me so much, uh like trust also in in the system, um, trust in, uh, in all these experts in that sense, um, yeah, and then there was this beautiful midwife, um, which started a bit to coach me through uh, pushing, because I was like still feeling, um, a little bit, but the epidural was definitely working. So she had to a bit coach me through the waves and then in 15 minutes baby was out. So it was super fast pushing phase.
Rossana:And I remember this was like when my heart exploded. I remember it was me, my partner and the midwife in the room and then she basically realized that baby was coming out and she was like, oh, okay, can you press that bottom? Um, and then suddenly all the doctors came in and they were looking at me, talking to me in a super sweet way. They said I'm gonna open your vest so that you can do skin to skin contact with baby right away. Uh, we're gonna wait to cut the umbilical cords. These are all things that I, you know, put in my plan and they were just telling these things like, like that, as if it was completely natural there, um, and then, yeah, I felt baby coming through the passage and then in a few minutes, like I said, she was there and my heart was just like exploding, like me and my partner were crying, and it was just a cry of joy to kind of know that she was fine, she was coming, to kind of know that she was fine, she was coming and this whole you know adventure, marathon journey was coming to an end and then, yeah, she was basically born.
Rossana:Unfortunately, and this is something I'm a bit sad of I didn't see anything in the sense of, like I was lying on this on this bed and my belly was huge, so I couldn't see anything, um, but I definitely felt, you know, baby coming through, um, and then I heard her crying and the doctor told me that her umbilical cord was, um, was a bit short so that she couldn't put it right away onto me, but I think then, in a matter of like a few seconds, the placenta was born, like that, I don't know, it felt like super fast, so then they could put her onto my chest and then from there on, you know, I think you just you're in this altered state of consciousness, you just forget everything.
Rossana:Then my partner cut the umbilical cord. I asked to see the placenta, because I wanted to to see it. I was curious, um, yeah, and then also there, the doctors were really beautiful, like everybody was having such a sweet energy, like very sacred, very present, very soft, very respectful. And, yeah, I only had minimal tearing, which was also super, super nice. So then in a few minutes everybody was gone and we spent like two hours, these golden hours, just the three of us, bonding and that felt like, yeah, just like a flow, a flow, a flow of events that I didn't control and it ended up to be the perfect um situation. Um, and also again, really, so, so thankful to the whole team to for their expertise and also their humanness. I think that, to me, really, really, really, really touched me, really touched me deeply.
Julia Neale:Yeah, thank you so much. Wow, sorry, that was beautiful, that was so lovely. So then let's go back. So your golden hour, your golden hours in your birth room in Sault Le Quebec. How did your immediate postpartum in the hospital progress? How did that go? What was that experience like? And then, how did it continue when you got home?
Rossana:Yeah, that's a very good question. So I think somehow I really thought, like naively, that birth would be the milestone and almost like a wall to go through and after that everything is fine. And I think I was extremely naive about that and I had some moments of intuition when I felt, for example, wanting to talk to a breastfeeding consultant before birth and unfortunately I received very wrong advice from my midwife. She was like no, breastfeeding is very intuitive, very natural. There's no need to prepare.
Julia Neale:Listeners, you can't see the face that Christina and I are making right now. Same here, that is not the right advice that you got and I'm really sorry that you got that advice.
Rossana:Yeah, and I think the worst thing was like when in postpartum I was having a lot of breastfeeding issues, then the same midwife told me oh, but you know, the majority of women have problems breastfeeding. And I was like why don't you guys do some sort of pre-emptive work around it? Basically I didn't know anything about breastfeeding. I didn't know anything about, also, infant sleep, um, I didn't know that babies don't sleep at night. Like I was so naive, so unprepared, because a I never had like a lot of babies around me and the ones that I had, somehow their mothers were not sharing these challenges with me. So I was generally, I generally didn't know this whole breastfeeding, postpartum and sleep topics and so, as much as the birth was amazing, um, postpartum was really tough, um, because of these three topics like I didn't know anything about like hormonal crash. I didn't know anything about breastfeeding, like I said, and I didn't know anything about sleep, um, and so basically, you know, after this 19 hours of labor, she was born at 3.05 pm. We had a couple of hours in the room. I was still like super high and then we and, yeah, she latched to my breast as soon as they put her onto my chest and there I thought, okay, that's it. You know, it's supposed to be intuitive. She's latching, it's fine.
Rossana:And then we were transferred to the birth ward and I have to say the birthing ward was incredible. The maternity postpartum ward was very different in the sense of you keep on having nurses coming in every hour, checking you, interrupting your sleep, you meet different people and you're just like trying to recover from this labor, like trying to, you know, recover from this labor, and everybody's showing you a different techniques around breastfeeding. But everybody was saying, yeah, it's all fine, it's all fine, so we stay one night at the hospital. And then we decided to move to a birth center not the first one, because you cannot go back or you couldn't go back to that one and so we chose another one in the city center and we transferred there and the feeling was good, like it was much calmer.
Rossana:There's obviously a midwife, but you can call her. She checks, I think, twice a day and also there, you know, when I arrived, they check me and they were all like she's drinking. Well, all is good. But, by the way, my nipples were already extremely sore, like super, super, super badly wounded already. But again, I didn't know anything. I thought it's normal it's going to go away. It's okay they're telling me she's drinking well, it's fine.
Rossana:And then on night three and luckily we were at the birth center, I have to say we discovered that Aurora lost more than 10% of her weight. She had fever like 39, which for a newborn is extremely high. She was not peeing, she had jaundice and she was not pooping, and so these were all signs that she was not getting enough milk. And that night, I remember, I just like completely crashed. I think also it was night three. Day three is also when the hormones normally crash, so it was just like everything together and you suddenly feel like you're completely failing as a mother um, because you're not able to sustain to feed your baby. And also to me that was like falling from heaven in the sense of like she was constantly on my breast and I thought she's drinking, like um, and so to to hearing that she was not getting enough. On the contrary, she was really like super dehydrated. Um, it was like just like breaking my heart completely. And a very interesting thing was like just like breaking my heart completely. And a very interesting thing was like, since the beginning, the narrative around it from all the midwives that we met at the birth center was I didn't have enough milk, like my milk supply was not enough for baby and that was like the seed. You know that was implanted in me for months and so, you know, after we stayed in the birth center for five nights, which is quite long for Swiss standards, I was very happy to be there because you know we were taking care of. Food was amazing, and whenever there was an issue we could call the midwife. But also, I would say, a problem. There was like we would meet a different midwife at least twice a day. So in total, we probably met like 12 midwives during our stay and every single midwife had a completely different approach to breastfeeding, to whatever was happening with me. I also had really painful hemorrhoids and they changed my treatment so many times. Whatever was happening with me, I also had really painful hemorrhoids and they changed my treatment so many times. And this was just so confusing because you're extremely vulnerable in that moment. You don't know anything about infants, or I didn't know anything about infants, and so obviously you trust the experts, but the problem is that every couple of hours, there's a new expert that is telling you a completely different thing. So, like with breastfeeding, there was like a person telling you oh, you should breastfeed on demand. The other one, oh no, you should do 20 minutes, oh no, you should do two hours. So it was extremely confusing, and I remember this feeling of just like being lost. Um, and then we, we came back home and the whole breastfeeding journey continued.
Rossana:Um, I also noticed how emotional I was. For many weeks I would say at least four weeks I cried every day. I was like having some sort of emotions and needing to release them. And I remember there was a friend of mine that had just gone through postpartum and her midwife told her that during postpartum, everything needs to flow Blood needs to flow, milk needs to flow and tears needs to flow. And so that was a good sentence that I kind of held close to my heart. I was like I'm not going to push down these emotions, I'm just going to allow them. I'm going to cry, I'm going to make sure that I'm in a safe space, that I'm not going to push down these emotions, I'm just going to allow them, I'm going to cry, I'm going to make sure that I'm in a safe space, that I'm taken care of. So that was, you know, this whole emotional aspect. Then you're trying to recover physically, and then there's the whole topic of breastfeeding right, try to figure that out. And there's a very good ending to my breastfeeding journey.
Rossana:I'm still breastfeeding um aurora at 10 months, but I remember for the first three months I had so much pain. Um, I contacted two, three different lactation consultants and also there somehow I was really lucky with birth, but with breastfeeding experts I was really unlucky. Um. I met people that you know were making me feel guilty if I would give her a bottle. Um, that gave me really, really wrong just answers. So again, the whole narrative was like I don't have enough milk. I need to do everything that I can, um to boost my milk supply. And so I did quadruple, triple feeding for many months, um super exhausting. Julia, I heard your podcast. I know you can understand me. I don't know about, christine, your journey, but this is just like the hardest thing I've ever done in my life like this is torture.
Julia Neale:Quadruple feeding, it's yeah, nothing anyone should ever have to endure for a long period of time.
Rossana:It was really like and you know I'm a warrior so like I couldn't allow myself to drop the breastfeeding and so, which is good, but on the other hand, it's also dangerous, you know right, because, yeah, I was really pushing myself to the limits with this experience, but I really wanted to feed her somehow, and I wanted also to break my family cycle. All the women in my family extended family they didn't breastfeed, they didn't manage to, and I felt maybe it's up to me to try to to break this, and that's also why I was so committed to it. Um, and so, you know, like I felt those experts were really not getting it, like I had this feeling of like I know nothing about breastfeeding, but I know what you're telling me is not right, like there's something you're not seeing. You know, and I kept telling them, for example, that my nipples were very squished, like the shape whenever they would come out of a baby mouth, and they were like, no, it's fine, like it's just something that your daughter has. And then at some point, it was like, hey, you know what? Like I'm just gonna google and the first thing you see on Google, page one, it's like if your nipples are shaped this way it means there's not a good latch Like, and you know, I had vasospasm, I had thrush like everything together and also they're completely undiagnosed.
Rossana:I had to self-diagnose with chat GPT. I mean this is ridiculous, you know. But undiagnosed, I had to self-diagnose with chat GPT. I mean this is ridiculous, you know. But that's basically what happened. So at month three I felt okay, like at least I'm managing the pain with magnesium and calcium, and somehow me and my daughter found a way where we were like doing mixed feeding, we're giving her some formula and then also breastfeeding her.
Rossana:And it was only at month eight that I found a new lactation consultant and this time I felt she's the one like I need to go to her. I went to her and in a matter of three minutes she put a finger inside my baby's mouth and she said your baby's not sucking properly. Her tongue coordination is wrong. That's why you have thrush, that's why you had squish nipples, that's why your milk supply was not there, because she was literally squishing your nipples and that to me it felt like oh my gosh. I cried so much during that session because I was like I knew something was off, um, but at the same time I was so happy to be there, you know, after eight months still we managed, you know. And then she gave us like a bunch of toys and like different teats for the bottle, different pacifiers shape. She also showed me like a little trick to like fold the nipples so that the nipple really goes inside the mouth. And it's crazy, like from one day to another, like I felt this is how a baby is supposed to suck, felt this is how a baby is supposed to suck, and my milk increased. Obviously, no more pain, obviously no more white and blue nipples, obviously.
Rossana:And another thing that really drove me nuts, I have to say, was both, in both birth centers, they gave me, um, very wrong sized, uh, pumping um flanges, because I have very big breasts but I have small nipples. So when they saw my breasts, I guess they thought, okay, she just needs a bigger size. And this last lactation consultant, she asked me what is the size I gave you? And I was like 24, 28 millimeters, 24, 28 millimeters. And she measured mine and I have 13. So this whole freaking pumping situation was also not working because the size was wrong, like, and to me it was like like I had to go through a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, because I was like I talked to so many midwives, so many pediatricians, so many lactation consultants and literally all of them, for some reason they gave me the very wrong information on both sides. Um, but then again at the end I was like but now here I, I meet her and she's seeing me, she's understanding me and she's also really finding the problem of this whole experience and giving me solutions that are life changing.
Rossana:And so my mission now is really to spread more awareness to breastfeeding topics and postpartum topics. And I'm so happy, julia, you're doing this, offering this course, and Christine, you're offering these spaces right that you have where you can talk about these things, because somehow the birth preparation courses still don't include breastfeeding and postpartum and sleep also as another topic, and I don't know why, but I think it needs to happen more and more. So, yeah, I guess when you meet a pregnant woman, you don't want to scare her, but at the same time, I wish I would have known. You know, I wish a friend would have told me hey, this is going to happen most likely. You need to inform yourself before and you need to find an expert before, because, like after post, like in postpartum, you're already so at your edge, and even trying to find an expert in that moment is just like it feels like an overwhelming task. So to have already a contact beforehand that you could go to before to know the basics, I would say, and then also to contact in case you have issues, it's just fundamental.
Rossana:I would say, um, so, yeah, as I said, there's a happy ending. I'm still breastfeeding her, we still have the bond and I'm very proud of myself for what I had to endure. Um, and I sometimes ask myself why it happened that way, but it just happened, I guess. And um, at least I found a solution and I didn't give up. And um, yeah, I'm still giving the best that I can. And also, like, through my experience, I really dropped any sort of residual judgments towards, again, breastfeeding is good, not breastfeeding is bad, like all these dichotomies, you know, all these judgments that we have against other women or mothers is just once, you experience it on yourself and you know what that means. Um, you just know you're one, you're going through the same experience and um, yeah, we need to support each other hi, I'm christina, a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three.
Christine Bliven:I'm the owner of Lilybee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village Find yours here. That is very wise and you should be very proud of yourself. That's incredible and so um like must have been such a relief to hear. Finally you were right, but also, like you say, so frustrating that that couldn't have come eight months earlier first weeks are so important, like that's when you establish everything, and I really had to think of myself.
Rossana:If only I would have had this little you know advice. Um, then everything would have been different, right?
Christine Bliven:that's incredible. That's a lot of persistence on your part and a lot of really good lessons that I think we all learn on the road to parenthood. But it was really nice the way you, um, could articulate those. We're all planners to a certain degree and we want things to go and conception and when the baby comes and all these things, and in parenthood it just doesn't work that way. So that's a tough lesson to learn. But also I liked that you said you're flexible in your plan, but the values, the things that you wanted to feel, were the same. So to be open to how that might express itself, but to stick with how you want to feel, that was really powerful. Thank you.
Rossana:Yeah, yeah, as I said, I had a lot of like, a strong vision for birth and that it happened, but I didn't have a vision at all for postpartum, and I think that should be there as well. You know you need to have a vision for, apart from, like, taking care of food, you know, apart from these things that are important, but also how do you want to feel during your postpartum, knowing that most likely it's going to be intense, just, you know, from a hormonal perspective, emotions, and maybe you don't have external challenges, but you're still going through a huge transformation of yourself, absolutely. And, yeah, you need to have a like hold yourself super kindly in a beautiful vision for yourself in that moment, in those in that period.
Julia Neale:Yeah, yeah, self-compassion is often the number one. Most important thing about postpartum is self-compassion, yeah and this I didn't have.
Rossana:I have to say, like what made it so hard for me was like feeling like I was failing, like it was I was doing something wrong, like I was not producing enough milk for my baby, and I know like externally it just doesn't make sense. You know my partner was like but she's healthy, we have formula. You're giving her so much love. You're the best mom ever. But inside, if you're a woman and you want to breastfeed and you cannot, for whatever reason, it just does something to you and that needs to be acknowledged. Also, it needs to be shared with other people, other women.
Julia Neale:Especially in our hyper-individualistic society that we have when it comes to motherhood. How else was your postpartum support support network like? What did it look like? Was it just you and your partner was there? Was there anything else in place?
Rossana:yeah, so for the first two weeks we really wanted to be the three of us and we um, we treated ourselves with two weeks of mama's meals uh, yeah, you know, um, full board, so like breakfast, lunch, snacks, broth and dinner everything together and that was the best decision ever. Food is incredible, so I can totally recommend that. So I felt, yeah, I was really taken care of from like a logistical perspective, operations perspective, and you know, both my parents and my partner's parents live abroad, so like my parents are from Italy and his parents are from Germany, so they came to visit and obviously they helped. So they came to visit and obviously they helped, but we didn't want to have them, you know, in our house for like more than two days, or sorry, two nights, because it felt still very vulnerable bubble somehow, especially because of the breastfeeding challenges I was going through through. So partially maybe we didn't allow ourselves to receive full help, but also partially maybe we just wanted to be in the bubble. I also have to say my family tends to be very intense, so sometimes they're not the people you want to have around when you're very fragile and vulnerable. So I think that also played a bit a role into our decisions. So we kind of rather OK, we rather stay by ourselves, and obviously we had friends that came and you know, cook for us. So there was a network, um, so there was a network.
Rossana:I think what I missed was, um, almost like a psychological, emotional support. Um, I think I restarted therapy with my therapist only probably like three months after birth and I could, you know, talk a lot about certain dynamics. But in those really early, early weeks I think my partner was the person that was just taking it all, which, yeah, I mean it was lovely of him, but I think he also needed his space, right, he also became a father. He was also dealing with all the challenges, or seeing me so challenged. Right, it's a huge challenge for a partner, um, so in that sense I wished a more education before birth, be more self-compassion and see more, maybe, psychological support.
Rossana:Like I didn't know that the brain would undergo such a deep transformation. Like there are new studies now that you know, even says or proves how much the amygdala in the brain expands so much 25% more after birth, and the amygdala is the center for really extreme anxiety or fears or super strong emotions. So there's even a biological aspect, biochemical aspect. You become a different person and you suddenly have to deal with things that maybe you didn't have to deal with before or they were so under the carpet that they come up somehow with a child. And, yeah, maybe more awareness there also like, or more education or having somebody to talk to about these things.
Rossana:That is not just a friend, as I said, I had many lovely friends around me, but I felt maybe I would have needed more support and my experience.
Rossana:You know, I was not in postpartum depression, it was not a severe case, right, I really heard about super intense stories, but I guess I just had much more anxiety than normal, much more fears than normal, much more insecurities than normal, and to me that already felt a lot and I wish I would have had like an expert, you know, to coach me through.
Rossana:And this is also why this Johanna the lactation consultant it really felt I was talking to a lactation consultant expert, but also almost like a psychotherapy expert in the sense she was so empathetic, so caring. She really got me, you know. She knew what I meant, what I had to go through, and that moment of connection was so precious and that was even enough. You know, maybe you don't need to talk about this whole thing and try to figure out things. Just a moment of connection where you have an expert in front of you that is is getting you instead of telling you no, the bottle you shouldn't give because otherwise your milk supply goes down. You know, it's a very different approach and I really wish, yeah, women will be able to find the first types of therapists or experts.
Julia Neale:Yeah, thank you. I think that this, what you're talking about right now, is really going to reach a lot of moms and help them as they approach this huge transformation, and it is so. It's so lovely to hear that you're feeding your daughter at 10 months after this, and it is a real testament to your hard work. It's not to be diminished, thank you. Before we finish up, we're sort of reaching the end of our normal time. Before we finish up, we're sort of reaching the end of our normal time. We have a question we normally ask to moms, and I'm very, very curious about yours. We ask, in this whole experience pregnancy, birth, postpartum if you could pick one moment which is your most brilliant, so your most brilliant moment in this whole experience what would you share?
Rossana:It's funny because, like, like, motherhood can be so tough on so many levels, but it is also so rewarding, to the point where there's not a single moment, but there is like a series of moments that happen every day reading a story before bedtime, um, crawling together on the meadow, um, just you know, seeing her developing. These are like single moments that really touch your heart and they keep on doing so, like every single day, um, and I guess that's why people have kids, because of that, like, it's an incredibly challenging journey, but somehow it manages to be an incredible beautiful and rewarding journey. It's like everything together and even if there are moments where the dark seems stronger and is stronger, somehow, as soon as there's like a little light, the darkness is not there anymore. It's like lighting up a candle in a dark room.
Rossana:Then the room is not dark anymore and, um, this is how motherhood has felt and is still feeling, um, to me and in the end of it all you know, with, like, extreme sleep deprivation, breastfeeding challenges, hormonal challenges, relationship, like everything together, somehow it's still worth it, and I heard that before and I think if you're not a mother, you cannot understand. You're like, why is it worth it. Like you are going through all these things. It doesn't make sense. But as soon as you become a mother meaning as soon as you even like to me, becoming a mother is like as soon as you hold a desire to be a mother, then you're a mother already. As soon as you have that, then you know, you experience what that means, like this pure love and connection and gratitude for them to having chosen us and for them to be here. I think that's the best moment of moments.
Christine Bliven:Yeah, it's really beautiful Accumulation of moments. Thank you so much for sharing, Rislana. Thank you.
Julia Neale:Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow, so please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents-to-be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it, and be sure to follow us on social media at Swiss Birth Stories for even more tips, resources and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and birth stories too, so feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, swissbirthstoriescom, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning and keep connecting with each other.
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