Swiss Birth Stories
Our mission is to share diverse birth stories from across Switzerland in a way that empowers the storyteller. We aim to create a supportive space where each person is in control of their own narrative. By recording and sharing birth stories in Switzerland, we hope to inspire those planning their own birth, offer insights for birth workers, or allow listeners to reflect on their own birth experiences. Tune in to hear real, personal, raw birth stories. Available on all major podcast platforms. This podcast is in seasons; during an active season, episodes will be released weekly.
Swiss Birth Stories
Elli- From fear to trust: Two babies, two different experiences.
Resources follow this summary
Ellie shares her journey of giving birth twice at the University Hospital in Zurich, exploring both the emotional challenges of pregnancy and the profound differences between her two birth experiences. Through her story, she highlights the importance of advocating for yourself during labor and recognizing that babies arrive with their own unique personalities from day one.
There are a few gorgeous moments in this podcast where you can hear her little one snuggling in for a feed. We kept these moments in as it is simply real and true to the experience of interviewing Elli, which was a total delight.
• Moving to Switzerland shortly before starting a family
• Experiencing physically easy pregnancies while struggling with the psychological aspects
• Being induced 9-10 days past estimated due date for both pregnancies
• First birth involving an epidural and the "cascade of interventions"
• Second birth progressing to intense, unmedicated labor within hours
• Advocating against an episiotomy during second birth without prior consent
• Insights on the Swiss postpartum care system
• Realizing her two children had completely different personalities from birth, and learning how to parent such different children
• The valuable midwife advice: "If it works for you, then it's okay"
• Finding perspective with her second child that everything is just a phase
Here are the resources from Elli's podcast:
Instagram:
@Karrie_Locher
@dr.maehughes
@Badassmotherbirther
Podcasts:
Informed pregnancy podcast and informed pregnancy plus (to watch birth movies)
The birth hour
Evidence based birth
Makes milk with Emma Pickett
External:
Christine Bliven- baby wearing!
Meal train- get your friends to bring you dinner :)
Pelvic floor training
Baby massage to meet other moms!
Please connect with us! See below for how to contact and interact with us:
To share your story: https://www.happydayhypnobirthing.ch/swiss-birth-stories
All episodes:
https://swissbirthstories.buzzsprout.com
Our websites:
www.swissbirthstories.com
www.happydayhypnobirthing.ch
www.lilybee.ch
Instagram:
@swissbirthstories
@happy.day.bumps.babes.beyond
@lilybeezurich
Tiktok:
@swissbirthstories
Substack:
https://julianeale.substack.com/
Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neale, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach and trainee doula.
Christine Bliven:And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three. On today's episode, we're talking with Ellie. Ellie moved to Switzerland five years ago and gave birth to both of her babies at the University Hospital in Zurich. She talks about the psychological struggles in pregnancy, the similarities and differences between her two births and the important lessons she has learned from both of her children. She also touches on the importance of making your own decisions for your birth and standing up for what you want.
Julia Neale:Hi Elli, Welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. We're so happy to have you here.
Elli:Thank you so much for having me Very excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Julia Neale:Very excited to be here. So before we begin, could you tell us a little bit about you and your family?
Elli:Sure, my name is Ellie, I am 33. I live in Zurich, in Bolishovn, with my husband and my two kids, adira, who is two and a half, and Boaz, who is almost four months. I'm originally from the US.
Christine Bliven:Awesome, thank you, and then we'll just turn it over to you if you want to start maybe with pregnancy and how that went and then take it from there.
Elli:Sure. So I got pregnant with my daughter in September of 2021. And I moved to Zurich in October 2020. So we waited a little bit to sort of get adjusted here, to make some friends, and my husband is originally from Zurich but he had been living in the States for five years leading up to us moving here, so we didn't really have a network of sort of village, as it were. Of course we had his family and his sisters and his childhood friends, but together we didn't really have a community here. So we wanted to wait a little bit before we had kids to sort of set that up, wait a little bit before we had kids to sort of set that up.
Elli:And I got very lucky. I got pregnant pretty quickly. I did have one chemical pregnancy before I got pregnant with my daughter and I got pregnant with her on the next cycle. So I felt very lucky and blessed to just sort of have that be easy. And I will also say that both of my pregnancies were physically very, very easy.
Elli:I felt really, really good during my pregnancies. I had zero nausea, zero vomiting, zero exhaustion. I felt really normal and I would even forget sometimes that I was pregnant. I were, you know, bedridden or at home on an IV drip with fluids because they just couldn't keep anything down. So I felt really grateful for that. And so the physical aspects of my pregnancies both of them were lovely, I would say.
Elli:The emotional and psychological aspects of both were harder, in part because I had almost no symptoms. I had a very hard time believing that I was pregnant, especially with my first. I would, you know, pee on 100 pregnancy tests because I just couldn't believe that it was actually true, especially before you can feel the kicks and before you really see any anything I really had. I couldn't understand it, and only when the baby started kicking and moving was I able to really sort of start believing it. And then you always have the questions in between ultrasounds is everything going well? Are they kicking enough? Are they moving enough? I don't remember anyone really sharing that with me.
Elli:The sort of psychological aspects of what it's like to be pregnant. I remember people mentioning often the nausea and the exhaustion and not so much the more emotional and psychological sort of heaviness of being pregnant, sort of alongside the joy and excitement and anticipation and all of that being pregnant, sort of alongside the joy and excitement and anticipation and all of that which I also felt, but for me definitely the psychological aspects were hard. But other than that, really there were no complications, thankfully, with either me or or my babies and the only, I would say, the only kind of noteworthy aspect was that both babies were extremely comfy inside and did not want to come out. So I was induced both times, with both babies. I will just mention I got pregnant with my son in March 2023.
Elli:My daughter was a little over a year and a half and also I breastfed her until about that time and I hadn't gotten my cycle back, because I guess that's the way my body reacts to breastfeeding. It just hadn't come back and I sort of tried to wean her a bit so I could get my cycle back, so I could get pregnant and also, super lucky, I had two periods and then I got pregnant with him. So I haven't had so much of that this whole period cycle situation the past few years, which is actually kind of nice. And again that pregnancy was again physically easy and some of the same sort of emotional and psychological questions came up, maybe a bit less, but they still come back every time. It's a new pregnancy, a new baby, a new potential.
Elli:Um so you're right that that that is something people don't really share very much about yeah, I think it's's important to be able to talk about that, even if everything's going well and there's no reason to worry. I think that knowing that other people maybe also share those fears and are kind of walking around, even with a, you know, beautiful round belly, and sort of wondering what's going on in there, it's for me the whole idea of pregnancy that you can kind of just exist and the baby grows without you doing anything. It's so miraculous and amazing and also it makes you feel a bit like, yeah, you have no control over anything. You can just do your best to stay healthy, to keep moving, to eat well, and in the end you're just the container and the baby's going to grow and develop, however, however it does and it's yeah, it's always the two-sided thing of it being miraculous and also really mysterious too. So, as I, as I said, I was induced with both, and with my daughter I was induced nine days after her due date or guest date, and with my son 10 days after, and with both inductions I had the same method, which was misoprostol, which is the vaginal pill that they insert, vaginal pill that they insert and you can get every four hours. You can get a new pill for 12 hours or for 24 hours and you have to take a 12 hour break. And they told me this at the beginning of both sort of saying we don't know how long you're going to have to be here for, so you might want to get comfortable, you know, maybe pick a show on Netflix to watch, just kind of really settle in because you could be in this hospital for four days. I did not like that idea very much. But I also will mention I decided to give birth at the university hospital, which for anyone listening in Switzerland might be relevant. I the Zurich University, zurich University Hospital and I chose that originally because a friend of mine gave birth there and had a positive experience and at the time that I was thinking about where to give birth I was still relatively new in Switzerland and didn't really have so many people to talk to about it. So I talked to my friend and she had a good experience and I just sort of went with what she she chose and I just chose the same place again because I was already in the in the system and it felt easy to to do that. Um, I will say that my body reacted very positively to the mesoprostol and um. With both um I was induced at around the same time, around 4 pm with both, and I gave birth around 6 am both times. This is where the two birth stories kind of take different paths. So they both were induced at four and born at six, but the experience between those hours, between the hours of four and six, were extremely different. I would say.
Elli:For the two births With my daughter, I was really, really afraid of birth. I listened to podcasts and I tried to prepare myself, but I could not imagine myself in the situation of actually giving birth. I tried to visualize it. I tried to sort of think, okay, what will it be like to labor? What will it be like to, you know, push my baby out? I could not physically or you know, I could not picture myself doing it. I could watch, you know, videos of other women doing it. I could not put myself in that situation and so when it actually started happening, I was afraid and really just sort of I felt myself really close up and tense up and sort of thinking, you know, if I could just tense up so much, maybe she just won't come out and then I just don't have to deal with this. You know, maybe she could just stay in longer, maybe I just don't have to deal with this. You know, maybe she could just stay in longer, or maybe I just don't have to, don't have to go through this at all, which of course is is not true.
Elli:But when labor started to get intense, my water broke like sort of classic in the movies all over big splash, meconium, all the things, and that was sort of when labor started intensifying and I pretty much immediately asked for an epidural and the midwives actually didn't want to give me one, which I in retrospect appreciated. They were really supportive, trying to help me move, get through the contractions, trying to say you know, you're doing this, you can do, um, maybe we can try some other things. And I was very set. I was like no, I really want an epidural. And so they uh acquiesced and they called the anesthesiologist and I got a really good epidural. I felt really um good about it at the time.
Elli:I uh was still able to I think they call it a walking epidural. I was still able to I think they call it a walking epidural. I was still able to move my legs and have some feeling, but I was like the pain was gone. It was, I felt. I said to my husband at that point I could do this again, like we could have another baby Like this. If this is how birth is, you know, with the epidural I could. I could do this again. Before that I thought there's no way and I have two kids so. But basically the epidural was also very productive. I didn't have any side effects from it afterwards, which I'm also very grateful for, and I know it was not always guaranteed but I was able to open very quickly. Within a few hours I was ready to push and I was very lucky I think the statistics are not on my side for having a vaginal birth with an epidural, so much, but I managed to get her out.
Elli:I think that I had a very classic hospital birth with the cascade of interventions with giving Pitocin to speed up the contractions, giving some other drug to slow them down, getting a catheter to empty my bladder, using a vacuum to actually help her get out. Because of that epidural I couldn't, you know, fully feel the contractions and push effectively. But in the end I was healthy, my daughter was healthy and I felt. I felt good about the birth experience. I didn't have any shame around the epidural or I didn't have anyone make me feel like at the hospital, like they weren't saying to me you know, maybe this wasn't necessary or whatever it was. I felt very supported and I had a good, good experience and postpartum with my daughter was, I would say, very good. I didn't have any pain from the stitches. I did have some like a three quarters of a centimeter tear, which is very, very small. So I basically not even a full centimeter and didn't have any pain from that. I basically not even a full centimeter and didn't have any pain from that.
Elli:And breastfeeding was pretty, came pretty naturally. I had a very good midwife who came to our house as everyone in Switzerland guests, which as an American is kind of incredible. That insurance, you know, supports and pays for a midwife to come over several times after the baby's born to check on me, to check on baby, and she was also a lactation consultant, so she was able to help me with different positions for breastfeeding, help me make sure that her latch was effective and also she had her own. It's like a laser and it's yeah, I see some nods she bought one for herself so she could do these, this treatment at like the house, like the homes of the women who she visits. And she did it sort of prophylactically for me just from the beginning, just kind of after she checked on everything. Then she would just go into my bedroom with me and do the laser treatment and I I credit that for really not having had any pain at all or any bleeding or cracking or anything.
Julia Neale:Just so that the listeners know it's not like a laser hair removal laser. It's not painful, it's just a light. I don't actually know the science behind it. I don't know it's just a light. I don't actually know the science behind it. I don't know.
Elli:I think she explained to me that I don't quite remember, but somehow the light, I think, helps the cells, like regenerate, and something about that. She said it's also helpful with hemorrhoids, which she did not use on me, but that is a technology that is used to treat that as well. But that is a technology that is used to treat that as well, and I just felt really grateful for her and that I also had her her phone, even things that you know. Oh she's, she's sleeping like this is her sleep pattern. How, what do you suggest? Like, is this normal? As you know, as a first, first time parents, you don't, you don't know anything and you're just sort of making it up as you go and to have this person you know, because you know your parents try to give you advice, friends, you know in-laws, and then you sort of have this like neutral third party who can come and say this is um, normal, this is not normal, or I think you should get this checked out or whatever. For us that was so helpful to be able to sort of just ignore all the other pieces of information that were coming at us from parents and and friends and just be able to say, no, we, you know, we listened to our midwife. That's what she told us Um, we're doing it this way, Exactly, Exactly.
Elli:And I think the most helpful piece of advice that she gave us that I just wanted to highlight was that if she said there's no right or wrong with how you're, with how you're doing things, it is, if it works for you, then it's, then it's right. And that sort of came up in the context of you know, my daughter was a Velcro baby, so she always wanted to be in the carrier and I sort of started asking questions you know, is this normal? Is this okay? Can all of her naps take place in the carrier? Can babies sleep sitting up? Is that okay? Is that bad for them? Is that, you know? Will she ever sleep in a bed, like during the day?
Elli:And my midwife said you know, if it works for you and you're happy to carry her around and everyone's you know doing well, it's okay. It doesn't have to be your baby does not have to be in a stroller, it does not have to be in a crib. If it works for you, then it's okay. And that was so helpful for me to hear be able to just be, to live my life the way that I that worked for me and my baby and my family, and to not have to feel shame or have questions about it.
Elli:She was very affirming and she did say you know, if it's not working for you, if you have, if it's, if you're, if it's, if it doesn't feel good to you, then of course we can talk about how maybe we can make some changes. But if it works for you, then you just just do it. And for me that was really really helpful to hear and things and it's something I've told also people who have you know sort of mentioned to me similar kind of qualms and been able to say my midwife said if it works for you, it's okay, and been able to say.
Christine Bliven:My midwife said if it works for you, it's okay. So, hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lilybee, a family hub in Zurich, where you can find resources, community and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village.
Julia Neale:Find yours here you know, one of my favorite quotes about this stage and about about um, the newborn phase, is that if it's, if it's not a problem for you, then it's not a problem exactly I love that.
Elli:I like that a lot too. Um, it's, it's really important to to hear, especially when everything is so new. And yeah, um, I could move on to my son's um, birth I guess, um and um. So again, I had a great pregnancy, as I mentioned, and had the same kind of I. I really really wanted to go into labor spontaneously. I really wanted to know what like. I wanted to know what it would be like to have contractions that were just like my own, that my body was just like, hey, this baby's ready to come out.
Elli:And you know, I started eating dates and I drank a little bit of the red raspberry leaf tea, just kind of trying a few things. I didn't really want to do. Castor oil, which I know people have tried to sort of induce labor, I, I. That did not sound appealing to me, but there were a few things I was willing to try and I went to acupuncture this time. So I found a wonderful acupuncturist here in Zurich and I can maybe in the show notes if there are show notes, I can maybe link to her- yeah, yeah, we will do that for sure.
Elli:Notes that can maybe link to her. Um, yeah, yeah, we will do that for sure. Great can link to her place. She was wonderful and she, um. I just wanted to go to sort of see what it would be like for the never had acupuncture before. But also I was really trying to focus on this idea of like release and opening and sort of allowing my body to like just do its thing, and I I thought, you know, maybe she could free up some of those energy channels.
Elli:Whatever acupuncture does, it was also just an hour for me to. She calls them acu-naps, where you kind of fall asleep during the acupuncture session, and I did, I think, every time, have like maybe even just a few minutes, but just a really deep kind of sleep, and that was wonderful for me, just sort of. I started going to her. I was in my in the 30 something week. It was not super early, but that's when she recommends starting to come. No-transcript help my body sort of get into labor. But it did not, and so I'm sorry, I guess you'll have to edit this part out.
Julia Neale:No worries, that's fine. That's fine. Can you already feed in the carrier? I was like yeah, yeah, Sounds like a few weeks old.
Elli:You were like we're going to learn how to do this fast, oh oh yeah, I mean I think he like yeah, he got very used to it very early on. Also, I'm on the go a lot so I had to, I had to learn, because I he didn't want to be in the stroller and, you know, stays quiet longer if I just feed him in here.
Christine Bliven:I think we have two, you know. Oh, yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Elli:So I really wanted to go into labor. It didn't happen. The hospital really encourages induction 10 days post-dates and at the end you know you're also ready to just get the baby out. And I agreed to the induction. So exactly 10 days after his due date I went into the hospital and of course they're really interested in the hospital and these CTG scans. So I had several of those to check on baby to make sure that everything was okay on his side, and then around four o'clock again I got the first misoprostol pill and then they did another CTG to make sure that everything was fine.
Elli:And then I was sort of released and they said you know, you can go for a walk. My husband was with me, my daughter was with my in-laws and so we just sort of went outside. It was raining but we went for a long walk outside and by the hospital. There's a lot of stairs sort of in the hospital complex, so we walked a bunch of those stairs to try and get everything going and eventually we had to come back because they wanted to give me another pill. So we came back and they actually decided to wait two extra hours to give me the next pill because they thought that my body was starting to like respond to the mesoprostol already. And, um cause, on the CTG they could see I was having some contractions and I could also feel them. They were not super painful, but I could tell the tightening was happening. And then, yeah, so they waited two extra hours and in that meantime nothing really changed. I was sort of dozing off. I started getting a little nervous like, oh my gosh, like what if I am going to be here for four days, what if this doesn't work the same way it worked with my daughter and that sort of was not very good for my energy. It was. I should have in retrospect and I'm looking back to that sort of moment in time, you know, really been just focusing on opening and breathing and you know, being present, but that those thoughts kind of kind of took over.
Elli:And in that time the midwife who was with me, she offered a few things for me to try that might help encourage labor. So, for example, she was able to do acupuncture, which was very cool. Not all midwives are trained in that, but she was. So she brought out the needles and we did some acupuncture, and she also gave me an enema, which I refused my first time around I was very scared. It's where they like shoot water, not shoot, they like squirt water up your butt. Then you have to hold it in and then you go to the bathroom to try to like empty out everything inside. I was terrified of that with my first birth and I accepted it this time because I thought, you know, let's try everything we can to sort of get this baby out.
Elli:And I will say, for a lot of people have this idea that giving birth in hospital it's not possible to have some of these treatments. But it actually is, especially, I think, in Switzerland and the US treatments. But it actually is, especially, I think, in Switzerland and the U S. I think a bit less. But um, here I found the midwives to be very supportive of trying to have um the least like medicated birth as possible and they really want you to um to succeed, like I mean, having your baby come out. However it comes out, is success right? I don't have any. There's no. For me there's no hierarchy of the actual birth is better than C-section or whatever it is.
Elli:But I did feel encouraged by the midwives to sort of stay strong and to, like they were, they were very supportive and they wanted me to feel confident about my experience and you know, having. You know, they also gave me um forgot to mention they also gave me an induction tea which was a sort of like. It sort of tasted a like a winter spice um tea that's with like cloves, and they gave me a clove oil that my husband was able to rub like on my legs and, um, that's supposed to maybe help induce labor as well and I felt like those were all just nice touches to make my experience just a bit nicer. And so those are all things that I got in a hospital which I didn't have to necessarily go to a birth center for which maybe I consider for if I have another baby but in a hospital it was able to sort of get that treatment as well. So I tried all these things and labor was sort of the same, these mild contractions.
Elli:So they gave me another pill and I also mentioned I was strep B positive this time around, which meant that they wanted to give me two rounds of antibiotics for the baby when the baby comes out, to make sure that they don't something with the bacteria and ingesting it and something like that. I'm not exactly sure, but I wasn't sure it'd be positive my first, so that was new. But they gave me the first round when they thought that labor was already progressing. I just mentioned this because the midwife said she didn't know exactly when to give me the antibiotics, because you can't get it too early and you can't get it too late, because once you're in active labor it's too late to get the antibiotics. But if you give it too early then it goes through your system and it's ineffective and you've gotten antibiotics that you don't need and the baby, like it, doesn't affect the baby. So, um, it turns out it was a bit too early because labor hadn't really it wasn't really progressing. But when it came time for the next round she gave me the next round of antibiotics, um, through an IV, and I was able to sort of rest.
Elli:The contractions started getting a bit stronger, but still really manageable, and I was still in bed I think I wasn't even needing to walk around and kind of deal with the contractions and she gave me a third pill, kind of like in the middle, maybe middle of the night, and very shortly after that something switched. A light switch went off and the labor turned from the sort of like period cramps to basically full-on labor. I was walking around the room and what I found to be very annoying was that they wanted to do another CTG scan when I'm in labor, sort of. You know, I'm in pain, I'm trying to do like the horse lips, you know, to keep my face calm, to like keep my breathing, you know, open, and they want to like strap me to this CTG and I was able to do it standing up, which was really nice and better, but eventually. So they usually do CTGs for about half an hour, which I find to be way too long when you're in labor, especially when you're in active labor. Beforehand it's fine, but when you're in active labor it's a bit too long.
Elli:I really felt the urge to go to the bathroom and I essentially ripped the CTG thing off of my belly because I had to go. I was like I need to be on a toilet right now and I went to the bathroom which I had had a shared room with the person who was also getting induced. She already had gone down to the labor ward, so I had the room to myself, but the bathroom was outside of my room. So I went to the bathroom and I locked the door, because that's what you do when you go to the bathroom you lock the door. I felt crazy in the bathroom. I felt like it was an experience that I never had in my life. I was bearing down, I was pushing, I was, I almost gave birth on the toilet. I was, but I didn't know because I didn't have contractions that I that were like that with my first birth. So I didn't know that, this't know that my body was just pushing my baby out. I was shaking, I was sweating.
Elli:The midwife heard me from outside of the bathroom and she knows what these sounds mean. She said to me she knocked on the door. She said you have to unlock the door. You need to come out. You can't give birth here. This is not the birth floor, this is the induction floor. People are sleeping. You have to come out and you have to, you know, come to the, you know to stock day, to the delivery floor where you can give birth. But you can't give birth up here. And I just couldn't get off the toilet. I was like I cannot physically move right now. I'm just in my zone, you know. So she's banging on the door and it's locked so like no one can come in Eventually.
Elli:In like a short like break that I had, I was able to unlock the door and she put on like a diaper for me because of, you know, fluids and other things coming out, and I got onto the bed that they had rolled out into the hallway for me. I put my face into a pillow, I'm on all fours and they wheel me down to the delivery floor. This is like there's no dignity in any of this. I mean, I'm in active labor. I think this was about five in the morning. By the way, he was born at six, so this all happened very fast.
Elli:I had said that I wanted to go into the bathtub. Well, they bring me down to the delivery floor with the bathtub and I see the water running and I was like no, no, please don't put me in there, like I can't do this. I just want this pain to be over. Just get me the epidural again. You know, let's just do this. So, and then the midwife who was in the delivery, the delivery room, she said, oh, by the way, they brought me to a different room so someone else could have the tub, which is totally fair. So I'm in this other room. And I said to the midwife, like I have to go to the bathroom, and she's like you know what, let me just check to make sure you know, because that sensation often means that you're ready to push, that your baby's like almost here. So she checks and she's like yeah, I can see the head, we're just going to have to manage. There's no epidural for you, there's no pain meds, like you're, you're done, like you can do this, we're just going to manage. This is all happening, by the way, in in German, which is not my mother tongue. So, yeah, we managed.
Elli:And I was on hands and knees with my head in the pillow. I was making sort of low tones. I was trying not to scream because I heard that that's not productive. So, again, doing the horse lips and trying to just keep my my tones like low and sort of deep, and still with my head in the pillow on all fours. And I would also wanted to mention that the pain of pushing was so different than I expected it to be that I don't even remember being painful, as much as it being like intense and pressure and completely out of my control. I just remember feeling like this is what they mean when they say like your body pushes the baby out. It was I couldn't. I couldn't really participate. It was or I couldn't like choose to. It was just sort of happening to me and I had to just sort of go with it.
Elli:And at some point, when they they thought that the baby was almost almost out, they called the doctor who comes and catches the baby and she was like not so she, she didn't. She didn't seem so happy, like I remember like sort of getting a weird energy from her and she noticed that the baby's arm was up like this, like wrapped around his face, and that obviously, like you need more space to like get the baby out when there's extra like body parts, like in the way. And she asked me to go on my back, which I was not happy about because I was pushing on all fours, which felt good to me. But I rolled over and she asked the midwife for a scissors. I was somehow like very aware of what was going on and I just said like I do not consent to this. She was going to give me an episiotomy and she didn't tell me that she was going to, she didn't ask, she didn't inform me, she just asked for the scissors and I listened to hundreds and hundreds of birth stories in this other podcast called birth hour.
Elli:I knew um that asking for scissors, what what that meant, and I said to her I do not consent, like, as also, I was completely unmedicated. I was um, you know I, I knew I could do it. I in thaticated. I was um, you know I, I knew I could do it. I, in that moment I was like this head I it's here, like, I feel it, like this is happening, um, and she did not like that. I said that.
Elli:But in the end she managed to get the baby out. Um, he had no um complications. Um, I had two small tears which, um, she was able to stitch up and was fine. She did have to sort of use her hands to kind of get him out, sort of when I was pushing with the contractions and she in the end told me he was stuck for about five minutes. I have no idea if that's true and I have no idea it didn't feel. It felt like no time to me and all the time I don't know what time was in that Um, but I did read the birth report afterwards and I was in active labor for one hour um, which is very short Um, and I'm uh and very intense Um, but something I will I will mention was I did not feel like the doctor I, after I sort of told her what to do, which, um, I still sort of have, um, mixed feelings about.
Elli:I don't think she was very happy with that and I and I'm not a medical in the medical field I don't know if I made the right choice. I know that in my particular situation it worked out well for me and for my baby, but I don't know if I made the right choice in sort of telling the doctor what to do. I asked my midwife about it afterwards because I felt a lot of shame around it. I didn't feel, doctor, I didn't feel like she was like sort of proud of me for, you know, having, by the way, my baby was over four kilos, which no one expected, and you know I felt like, wow, I just pushed out a four kilo baby without an epidural and you know like, shouldn't someone be proud of me for that?
Elli:But the doctor was very critical. I felt like she just was not very friendly. I told her after the baby came out that I had some burning and you know, there's open wounds, there's blood, there's. I had some burning and you know there's open wounds, there's blood, there's fluids, I don't know. And she was like yeah, yeah, I know, I know, like you know, not saying okay, like thank you for telling me, we'll, you know, get you some pain meds for that or you know whatever. It was very much like I felt a little bit dismissed and I wonder if it was because she felt like I sort of told her what to do, and it's something that I still kind of think about to this day.
Elli:On the other hand, what my midwife told me is that if she, if the doctor, thought that there was true harm or could like if they're, if not giving me the episiotomy could have caused true, true harm, like she would have done it, whether I said no or not, probably. And the fact that she did it probably meant that it would have just been easier for her to have done it, but it was possible. She knew what, like deep down, it was possible for her to get the baby out without it In the end. I'm very grateful I did not have that because the tears were very minor and I didn't have any pain after, even with the stitches. So I don't know. That's just something that I don't think it's common for doctors to behave that way, but it was my experience and when the hospital sent me a survey about my experience I did write that in there because I think that they should know that this happened.
Elli:But overall, the recovery was very good and the one thing that the doctor did recommend was that I keep a catheter in for 24 hours post-birth just to let the tears or the yeah where she stitched it up, to heal, because one was on the urethra and it might have burned when I peed. So for a whole day I didn't have to go to the bathroom cause I had a catheter in and um, which I also didn't feel, because they put some they put like local numbing stuff um there so I could um, just yeah, not feel the insertion of it, and that was a weird experience to have just like pee in a bag next to me all the time, not having to go to the bathroom. But I think it was a good idea because when they took it out the next day and I went to the bathroom on my own, it I didn't have any pain or burning and I did use um like I did with my first birth I used a peri bottle, which is um to spray water like as I pee, to sort of like help flush everything out, and I'd recommend that for anyone um, post-birth whether, yeah, whatever, whatever type of birth you've had, I recommend it, and the one that give you in the hospital is not so effective. So get one that has like a long, um kind of like neck that you can kind of more effectively spray um when you go.
Elli:But again, um, postpartum was, was pretty, was pretty good. I thought that I was a breastfeeding like pro because of my first and I um nursed her for so long Um every different, and I did have some more pain nursing with my son than I had with my daughter and my midwife. I had the same midwife and she helped again. She did the laser, she helped with positioning, and I still think it took a bit longer for us to really find our groove. But we have found it and it's going really well.
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Christine Bliven:Curious whether you had family. You mentioned your in-laws watched your daughter. Did you have family around for either one postpartum to help?
Elli:Oh yeah. So I will also say my parents did come in from the US for this birth, so they came three days before he was born. They booked the flight, sort of thinking you know, maybe he'll already be born by then, maybe not. And so it was perfect and they stayed for like three weeks and so they also were with my daughter and they were able to support us a lot sort of in those early, early weeks.
Elli:Actually, the main difference between having help with both babies was that my daughter was extremely difficult to put down. Ever my mom with my first. She really couldn't help me by, like holding the baby so I could shower, or we really had to figure out ways for her to be helpful. I had to do a lot of instructing, sort of saying please do the laundry or please do the dishes or please do this, because she couldn't just take the baby, in contrast to my second, who was much easier to put down, much more willing to be held by other people. Here he is, um, he was. My mom was able to hold my son so I could go take a shower, so I could actually maybe, um, I don't know do whatever I wanted to do and that's just um, babies are born with their own personalities and I think I spent a lot of time with my first sort of wondering if I made her that way, if I sort of did anything to sort of make her be so clingy and only want me. Um, and now that I've had the second and he's he's so different, I realized it wasn't me. Um, babies are sort of born the way that they're born and I think that, um, one thing I forgot to mention that I did write down in my notes but I forgot to mention was that with my first I did not recognize her when she came out. I thought she was this foreign thing. I could her face like I did not recognize her. I was like who are you? My second looked a lot like her when he was born, so it was so much easier for me to kind of connect with him because I thought, oh, I've seen you before in the face of your sister and it was such a different experience.
Elli:It wasn't that I didn't connect with my daughter or bond with her, but I really didn't recognize her, her, and I think that there's for me that sort of indicated, this sort of larger idea that our kids are their own people. They are born with their own personalities and they're born with their own. They're, yeah, their own. They're their own people they're not. They're not just. I mean they are, they have us in them, sort of. But they're going to go on and have their own lives and be their own people and you sort of that hit me so strong.
Elli:But just not recognize my daughter, sort of thinking who is she going to be? Who is she going to grow up to be? I had no idea in that moment and and that was weird for me I thought I would recognize her but I really didn't, and no one had ever told me that before, that you could just not recognize your child or not. Yeah, just, she felt, she felt so, so foreign to me, and I think in in German, when you say when you wish someone, like when you're giving someone, like a wish, when you're when they just have a new baby, you say like, enjoy getting to know each other.
Elli:And I never heard that in English or like as an expression, but I found that to be so real because you're getting to know, you're going to note this baby, like their habits, their personality, what they like, what they don't like, just how to be around them and I think if you go in it with that approach of getting to know them, it makes it a bit easier because you don't have any ideas of how it should be or how it's supposed to be. It's what is true for them, what is real for them, what do they need as unique individuals in this world. And that was really helpful for me in those sort of early days to be like, okay, how is this baby different, what does this baby need? And also be able to compare the two.
Christine Bliven:And yeah, it's funny how early those differences appear, right, you think of course you know when they're eight, nine years old they'll have different personalities, but it's really early that you can kind of tell oh, you guys are very different.
Elli:Super early, super early. Yeah, I, I, I, I feel sort of I feel a bit bad saying this, but I've been thinking a lot. I think my son he's he's helped me kind of I don't know it feels, it feels like wrong to say, but sort of like enjoy motherhood more. I hate saying that, but like I love my daughter so much and I think she's so wonderful, she's curious, she's interesting, she's interested, she's like wild and energetic and also I find, find, just for me, I find her really hard to parent and already for him I feel just so different about it. Like I like he smiles a lot more than she ever did. He already laughs, like he can be put down and I'll put him, you know, in the on the floor just and he'll just smile up at me and you know, of course he cries, he's a baby, of course he has needs and whatever. But it's just been easier for me and maybe it's I'm different, maybe it's second time around it's easier. But it has helped me kind of enjoy it more, just because of his personality, his nature just sort of vibes with me more than I think at the beginning with my daughter.
Elli:I was also really resentful in certain moments of oh my gosh, my life will never be different. I'm going to be wearing her until she goes to college. You know she'll never be independent. And now I have the perspective to say, actually, all of this is a phase, like she's only two and a half and I haven't worn her in a carrier since she was maybe one and a half. In the grand scheme of my life that's so small. I didn't have that perspective at the time that everything is a phase and everything passes, the good and the bad. To be able to enjoy the things more that I don't think I could enjoy with my daughter because I thought it would last for forever, but then to also know that when things are hard, that it will pass.
Elli:I was not able to have that perspective with my daughter and I would walk around Zurich and see women pushing strollers with babies in them and sort of question, like what I did wrong to get this baby who just wouldn't go in a stroller? And then people would tell me you know, she just feels so safe with you and she wants to have that safety with you. And of course, when I'm, it's like August and it's so hot and you, like, are wearing a baby and you walk into it on air conditioned tram and you're just like dripping with sweat and you know. You just sort of be like, okay, I'm her safe place, but also like I need some distance.
Elli:I think that it's helpful to hear those things, but it's also helpful to have people you can sort of say to you know, this is, this is hard for me, it's not all, it's not all beautiful. I did start seeing like a therapist with with my second Insurance covers, I think, like 10 sessions, which was so great to know. I didn't know before and I think if other people knew that it might help, um, and that's been helpful for me. Um, just sort of, yeah, trying to understand myself better and why potentially certain aspects of motherhood, parenthood are a challenge for me, just given who I am as a person and my strengths and my shortcomings.
Julia Neale:Oh man, Ellie, this has been such an amazing conversation and for listeners you can't see that a little Boaz is here in the carrier and he's just been such a little sweet delight. Um, thank you so much. Before we wrap it up, I have a question for you. It's a question we ask everyone on the show, and it is what is what has been your most brilliant moment in your journey so far, in birth or in parenthood? What's one that really sticks out?
Elli:what's one that really sticks out? Um, the very first thing that has come to my mind was when, um, my second Boaz when he was just a few weeks old maybe, and maybe just a couple weeks old I took both kids out of the house for the first time by myself and I had Boaz in the carrier and Adira was in the stroller when she wanted to be, and we managed to go out to lunch and it was, I remember, feeling in that moment that I, I was so capable, I had, you know, all the things I needed for both kids. Like Boa slept the whole time and Adira was just so happy to have time with me and I felt like it just she listened, like we were just vibing. It was just such a good, a good moment and I felt, yeah, so capable, so able and just um, I, I felt like I reached a new sort of like point in my relationship with my daughter, where she was, she's turning into a real person, so we, you know she could have like a little conversation with me.
Elli:You know, we were able to like share this lunch and, um, it just felt such like a beautiful moment and, um, yeah, I think that's been. That's definitely a highlight for me and it was, oh, it's a moment that I look back on and I sort of try to conjure up in my mind when I have to, you know, do things that I think might be hard to think like, okay, I did this at this, really like you know, um, at this moment, that it really didn't have to be that easy or that beautiful. It could have been so hard, it could have been a disaster, and it was, and it was perfect. And I think about I try to keep that sort of in my back pocket for moments when I'm anticipating things maybe not being so easy or or so or so so wonderful to think like, yeah, I can do this. So that's what I would say about that.
Christine Bliven:Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. Ellie, Thanks for having me.
Julia Neale:Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow, so please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents-to-be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it, and be sure to follow us on social media at Swiss Birth Stories for even more tips, resources and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and birth stories too, so feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, swissbirthstoriescom, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning and keep connecting with each other.
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