Swiss Birth Stories

Mona- From Initial Disappointment to Empowerment: Reframing the Cesarean Birth Experience. 3 planned cesarean births, recovery, self-advocacy, breastfeeding and more.

• Julia and Christine • Season 1 • Episode 2

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Mona, mother to three "little female dragons" - now aged 21, 16, and 7, shares her journey of three planned cesarean births in Bethesda and Kantonsp. Mona's uterus is uniquely shaped, which prevented her babies from turning naturally into the optimal birthing position. She shares how the path to planned cesarean birth did not change anything about her mothering and how they were positive experiences. 

• Initially disappointed about needing a cesarean for her first birth after picturing and preparing for a natural delivery, having to process this shift in preparation
• Advocating for immediate skin-to-skin contact with her children after discovering it wasn't automatic with cesarean birth
• Appreciating the predictability and faster recovery of planned cesarean births
• Experiencing labor contractions after she went into spontaneous labour for the first time when her third daughter decided to arrive a day before her scheduled cesarean
• Receiving excellent postpartum support from Switzerland's postpartum midwife and family services systems
• Breastfeeding all three daughters for two years
• Dealing with her partner's gender disappointment and subsequent experiencing depression after her second birth and seeking professional help
• Finding her most precious moments in the quiet hospital time alone with each newborn


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Julia Neale:

Hi, welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neale, mother, perinatal educator, hypnobirthing coach and trainee doula.

Christine Bliven:

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three. Today we're talking with Mona. Mona is the mother to three girls that she calls her little dragons, due to the unusual shape of her uterus, as well as the baby's positions. She opted for three cesarean births. The first two were at Bethesda Hospital and the last one at Kantonspital Basel Land. Mona talks about the process of preparing for her birth, switching her mindset to a cesarean birth and the support she received from her postpartum midwife.

Julia Neale:

Hi Mona, Welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. It is a joy to have you here, Thank you. I'm very excited to be here and honored.

Mona:

Before we begin, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family? Sure, so I'm Mona and I'm a primary teacher. I teach now grade five, but when I started I was a grade one teacher. I've been living in Basel for 22 years now. My older daughter is 20. She will be 21 in the end of this month, and I have a second daughter, she's 16. Keeps me busy. And my youngest is seven. They're all my little three female dragons.

Julia Neale:

Could you tell us a bit about your pregnancies? How did you feel in your pregnancies? Sure.

Mona:

They were all extremely different, just like the personalities of the girls. I see, with my first pregnancy it wasn't planned. So I was actually six weeks pregnant when I went checking why am I late. I was even surprised that I was pregnant. I was pregnant, and with my second yeah, with my second ultrasound or you know examination, the doctor had said oh, you have she just used this word you have a deformed uterus. And I started crying, like what do you mean? I have a deformed uterus. She said, oh, you know, you have two sacs instead of one. And I'm like, okay, and so that was an interesting fact.

Mona:

But we were very excited about being pregnant, so it didn't matter. But eventually it led into the side effect of because of that, babies don't naturally turn. Yeah, so so my first baby and she didn't turn, so she was breached. So we were all about I had felt that. So I loved being a mother. I was very excited about giving birth, and giving birth naturally was like what I wanted, you know. And with the pre-exercises, you know, when we went to the prenatal classes they talked about, you know, the excitement of this and how mothers, you know, deliver their own babies, and you know I had that image in my head.

Mona:

So when I was told by the doctor that actually, because my child is breech, it's a high risk to have a natural birth, that I have to have a c-section with my first child, I felt a little bit, um, like cheated. You know I was like what, and so I had to actually readjust my thinking. And I did have the opportunity. My doctor did say you can try to do breech, but she's not the one who's gonna to deliver me. She said you have that option. You can do it in the university, the university hospital, instead of you know the the Bethesda where she does it, but it's on on my risk. So I had to make that thoughtful decision of you know what do I really want? And I trusted my doctor. My relationship with her was very positive, so I said I want her to be the person who delivers. And was a very good decision. Because, you know, yeah, it was the right decision to do for the C-section, but the first child was quite I was a little bit scared from this experience.

Mona:

So so, yeah, we went into the operation thing and it was. I was a little scared, the. I was more scared than from the epidural, than anything else because I don't like injections. But after that I was fine, like it was. There was a lot of people in the room and I couldn't see what's happening and I had wished I could because, you know, I wished I could see what's happening because I want to be involved in it, but I wasn't allowed. She said no, that's not a good idea. I said, okay, um, and people were coming and like, looking and say, can I take a picture of your uterus? Because apparently it's, it's a thing.

Mona:

I'm like yeah, sure, take a picture, okay, my baby come out now. And so, um so, when the hint came out, uh, I remember her face really, because she's like they pulled it out from top of the little curtain where my head is behind and she's like she was crying frantically, both hands in her mouth. I think she was very hungry. She's like here's your baby. And then they took her. So for me I was like, wait, where is my? Like I want to touch, like where's my baby? Like so that was for me. That was a little bit confusing. I wasn't sad or anything, I was just thinking, hmm, that's not what I see on TV. You know where, like the baby comes on you and it's all bloody and warm and you know they stop crying because they hear your voice. So, um so, but that was like a few minutes. And then she came back and they put her on me and I felt happy.

Mona:

After this. They they took me to a room where I was taken care of by a huge, amazing nurse he's always a male nurse, but he was a really nice and he said like I'll clean you up and get you ready and I said okay. So he maneuvered me all over and I felt really safe and he had a lovely sense of humor. So I was that very positive and I felt calm. And then I, uh Hanoodu came, my daughter, and they were showing me how high I could breastfeed her. You know, I was 25 then, so I was quite young and I wasn't sure what's happening, so I was doing my best to uh to give her the food. Um, so with my second child, I actually was excited about uh having the, the c-section, because I I well, the recovery was. It was the first. It was more me finding out what a C-section is, because there's not enough about it.

Julia Neale:

Yeah, did you feel prepared at all? Did your medical team talk to you about what it would be like?

Mona:

You know, physically, as I said, you know it's going to be a cut, it's like a surgery. Nobody told me, for example, you're going to have really bad gas afterwards, yeah, but you have to be prepared for that. I'm like, why didn't nobody tell me that? I, like you know? And then, like, did you go to the toilet? And I said I didn't go to the toilet, like you know. So nobody sat with me and said, look, you're going to be constipated because this is like a tummy, it's like you know. Look, you're gonna be constipated because this is like a tummy, it's like you know. You're gonna have to have really be intentional about your fiber. You move at the beginning, you know, really move around, don't be scared of the cuts. Um.

Mona:

So I don't think I was quite prepared, as much as I could have been. But eventually I recovered and I appreciated some things about it. I appreciated the fact that I knew when it's going to happen and that was great because I could plan. And, uh, you know, everybody knew my mother knew when she will be here. Um, you know, yes, there was a cut, but there's a lot of things that I? Um, recovery was afterwards not so hard, other than the fact that I just had to be careful with lifting and stuff like that.

Christine Bliven:

What kind of support did you get, especially after your? Your first one, but any of them, either from family or from the medical yeah.

Mona:

So my mother came to help and that was helpful. That was I was happy she came, but only for two weeks, and that was helpful. I was happy she came, but only for two weeks. I was offered. They asked me do you have stairs in your house? Do you need somebody to come to your house for cleaning and stuff like that? But I said no, I didn't need that. We had a small flat and flat and you know I didn't feel like I needed the extra help, but I was offered. I was actually shocked that I was because I was new to Switzerland, so I liked that idea.

Mona:

One of the great supports that I had is the like the, the, what is it called? Neighborhood midwife and you go to that person. She's like this amazing expert. Everything is okay and sometimes she could come to the house and make sure that the breastfeeding is working well, and so that was that was great. I loved that and I felt like watched over and I could call anytime. There was a line I could call, I remember, because Hind was crying at some point and I would call them and they said you know, why don't you try a hot bath? Why don't you do this? Um, I said she's so hungry, she, I don't know, maybe I don't have enough milk, what's happening? And she said are you drinking? She asked me are you drinking rosemary or something? She asked me are you drinking a certain herb? And I was. And she's like you have to stop drinking that. And I'm like okay. So in that way I did have support actually, to be honest.

Christine Bliven:

Hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby-wearing consultant, childbirth educator and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lilybee, a family hub in Zurich, where you can find resources, community and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood.

Julia Neale:

It takes a village, find yours here. I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but was the postpartum midwife the same situation where you could call or go or they would come after each of the girls, or did that change to being someone who would just?

Mona:

come to your house on a predetermined time. No, I had access to someone I could call yeah, and they would come on a like regularly if I want. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that didn't change. Yeah, that was, that was good, and I recommend people to use that as much as possible because it's really comforting and also, you know the tips are really good, just having somebody to to tell you you're doing okay right, that reassurance is really all you need in those first yeah and that you know when, when things are going this way or your child's not sleeping, that that's okay, like this is all right, this is what happens, you know.

Mona:

And also I felt cherished a little bit like the mom, like a mom you know not, oh yeah, that's what you do, like it was more, my role was very important, I felt, by these ladies. They came home, they came to the house or I went to them and I felt appreciated, just because I'm a mummy and that's nice, where sometimes it's taken for granted, right. Oh, you had a baby, so that was good. With my second child, I wanted a C-section. I didn't even want to think or consider a breach. I had I know what to expect. I had studied a little bit about it. So now I know, you know, the faster I the move, practice moving, the faster I recover. I knew what to expect. So so, yeah, with Farah, oh, and with Farah I was a little bit more prepared and I talked to my doctor. I said I want to hold my child right after she's born, because at the beginning I didn't know to ask for that. I thought it will just automatically happen and uh, and they don't do that with c-sections, because I think I don't know why they have to take them and like study them, or I don't know not study them, but like give them the tests, or yeah, so. And so when, when you stay to this, when you say, look, I really want to feel my baby at least a little touch before you take her, they say yes, of course, and so that's a good thing to look out for if that's something that you really need and want. Yeah and yeah.

Mona:

So Farah was a little bit easier because I was a little bit more prepared and the nurse I remember with my middle child was, was tough, but but she gave me a bit of tough love. You know, she came right after operation. Okay, let's get up. And I'm like what now already, while in the first baby they left me on the bed for the longest time, maybe because it was my first child, I don't know.

Mona:

But with my second child, which is, you know, four and a half years after, the nurse came and said now you have to get up. And I'm like, no, I don't want to get up. She's like, yes, yes, you have to get up. And she forced me to get up and practice walking. I'm like, okay, so I was more empowered that way. Uh, and yeah, and with Yara, my third child, uh, that was a totally different story, because Yara wasn't breach, she actually did turn, but because of the two other C-sections, the risk of rupture and all of that, they said it's just safer to do the third C-section, and I know what to expect. And I really now didn't want to squeeze anything out of my vagina, I just wanted to have it. I know what it is, I expect it. I didn't. I don't want anything else.

Julia Neale:

So you felt confident. You were like no, it's the right for me, yeah.

Mona:

And I, I realized it didn't take any away, anything away from my motherhood. You know I still, I was still the mommy. You know, the baby came, my, my child came. I held her in my hand and and she, she was mine and I was hers. It didn't matter how I gave birth, because she was safe and I was safe and we were both healthy and that all what mattered. And so at the end of the day, as long as you know what to expect and how to work with it, it didn't matter for me how they came. They came right. So I'm grateful for that.

Mona:

But, tiara, my water broke and I actually felt labor pain ever, for the first time ever. She just decided, a day before the operation, halloween night, I remember I had went to the doctor and they gave you this examination one day before the C-section, right, they test the heartbeat and all of this, and you know they poke around a little bit to see if everything is good. Oh, you're good, you can go home, see you tomorrow six o'clock. And then I go home and water breaks, I feel pain, and first I'm in denial, I'm like no, no, she just said I'm fine.

Mona:

And then obviously I'm in labor. So my older daughter says mom, she calls my sister actually in Lebanon to convince me to go to the hospital and she's like Muna, you're in labor, your water is broken, you have to go. So I decided to go Four centimeters. I was four centimeters but they had to slow down the contractions. So the doctor is ready to do the C-section. But I'm always grateful for Yara, the third one, because without this I would have never felt the pain of labor. So now at least I could say that I tried that Because with a C-section, you don't go through that pain, it's painless.

Julia Neale:

What about postpartum contractions when you're breastfeeding? Did you experience any?

Mona:

Oh yes, I felt that. I felt that Definitely that was kind of even though it was painful, but it was. For me it was like, uh, it was a recovery type of pain. It was like, yes, think of shrinking. Yeah, it feels normal, you know it wasn't. So it was like, yes, it's working, it's working. So it was a good type of pain. For me it's like um, because you know she was sucking and my uterus was responding, so it felt like we're good, we're alive like the system is working.

Mona:

Yeah there's a connection, so I I I didn't mind that pain. These are my three different stories. I don't know if I bored you guys, but that's what it was.

Christine Bliven:

It's kind of cool too that with the last one she kind of showed you she was ready.

Mona:

Oh, yeah, the doctor had said that. She'd said that's the most uh, beautiful thing is that we like when the kid, when the babies, choose when to come. Yeah, because I think hand would have stayed. My first child would have stayed another two weeks. To be honest, yeah, he was grumpy going out. She's like no cozy in here.

Julia Neale:

Yeah, I was like what happened um. And then how do? How are you feeling in um your third daughter's birth, when you were experiencing contractions and after the denial sort of left what? What was there and what was the waiting time like between arriving in hospital, water broken, vaginal examination four centimeters dilated, and then cesarean birth. Like what was that waiting phase like?

Mona:

That was, I must admit, the contractions. When they came, I wanted them to go. It was the most painful thing. I'm sorry, ladies, it is Pain is not.

Mona:

We're not the word police, nothing, no one could describe that pain to you, right? So we have something in our culture that says you know, when you feel that pain, you should say your prayer, because God will, you know, answer it and I know why. But nobody has in mind, can say any prayer because you're too busy trying to to manage. So for me, I was like I want the epidural right now. All this thing about me like at the beginning, beginning my first birth, I'm going to go all natural, I'm not going to do paint colors. That moment when the contraction came, I'm like give it to me, no, I don't care. It's like, no, we have to wait. I'm like no, no, so, um. So they had to give me this thing to slow down the contractions. It was about half an hour.

Mona:

That wasn't a fun experience because it made me a bit, you know, like gave me a bit of muscle spasms like this, just because it has a little bit like an extra dose of caffeine or something. That wasn't fun, to be honest. They slowed the contractions just because the doctor was in a different operation. Otherwise they would have quickly. You know, if the doctor was free, she would have done it right, like OK, let's do it 10 minutes, 15 minutes and in half an hour your C-section is done. That's another thing I liked. I mean some people say, oh, you know, because you want something like it's a little bit shocking. I liked it. You know, I didn't want to wait 10 hours for the baby to come. I wanted it. I want her now you know so.

Mona:

So it was easy. You know, zip, zip done.

Julia Neale:

And then did you um, and then did you get to hold her straight away as well.

Mona:

Yes, I did so they give her to you a little bit, um, and you get to. You know, smell her. And then they had to take her with Yara. They had to take her a little bit, uh longer with her father because, um, she had a kidney thing, hydronephrosis, so they had to sort that out, uh, but they had told me this. He said we're gonna take her now, do this. And and I was well taken care of by the nurses and the doctors there, you know they were all calming me down and you know, zipping me up and cleaning me from the inside. You could hear the, you know, because they clean the uterus, because they have to clean the uterus, right. So you hear a little. It's like a vacuum cleaner to suck everything out. You can hear it, but you can't feel it.

Julia Neale:

It's a very surreal experience wow, I never thought about that yeah, yeah, so they, they can clean it like that.

Mona:

So, yeah, it's just funny. But, um, they hold their hand. If let's like a doctor was holding my hand, it's, it's cool. I give all the attention, like in god, and then you.

Julia Neale:

You touched a little bit on your um postpartum experience with your first daughter. But how? How were your next two postpartum so like immediate postpartum, but then then also in the time afterwards?

Mona:

So recovery physically, it got better and better With my middle child, my body was a bit more used to and I knew more about breastfeeding. So that happened faster, it was smoother, I was sleeping a bit better because, um, with Farah at the middle child, I I did have to go to the doctor I don't know if that counts as the postpartum care because I was feeling sad and crying a lot. So I did go to the doctor and say, you know, I'm crying all the time so and she immediately she was like, okay, we send you to the psychologist to help with this. And I didn't really know why or I didn't have triggers. So I went to the psychologist and you know, we had these conversations and I didn't need medication or anything. I just I think I just needed to talk through some things and that kind of helped a little bit and I went earlier to work and with my first one I went back to work when my middle child, farah, was three months, to be honest, even though that was hard in terms of pumping, but I think I needed to be busy to help a little bit.

Mona:

Yeah, and with Yara, no, I didn't go earlier. Earlier I took more time because I knew what that is and um, I, I was pretty fit, like I was up and ready, and um, I, straight away told them to give me the fiber thing so I can go to the toilet as fast as possible. So I became an expert right there, so, and I had wanted this third child so much that you know, all I wanted is like OK, now I'm just going to enjoy it, enjoy the pain. I'm going to enjoy the sleepless nights. It was just a gift. So I didn't mind any of the physical strains, I wanted them.

Christine Bliven:

The sadness, the mental challenges. That was only after number two.

Mona:

They were more after number two. Yes, yeah, yeah, they were more after number two. Yes, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, I think what. What didn't help with uh, that is that I was lonely a little bit, even though I had friends and um, um, but yeah, I don't know how, how, why, why this happened more with my middle child, but, um, it was.

Mona:

There was this issue at the beginning, uh, with the boy and girl and you know, my husband had made a fuss about her not being a boy and when she was born a girl, her not being a boy and when she was born a girl, because we knew the gender, so he kind of kind of made a fuss and and then when she was born, he was wrapped, or she wrapped him around her like he worshipped her. And I'm like, why did you give me such a hard time the whole pregnancy if you're gonna worship this child, this, this infant, you know? So I think that kind of threw me off a little bit. I was kind of mad, a little bit like that. I think that was a little the communication between me and him at that point was. I was disappointed.

Julia Neale:

So I think that triggered a lot of the mental difficulties. I think every baby and every pregnancy and every transformation is so different from each other you can't take for granted that X, y, z happened in the past.

Mona:

Yes, and there's such an emotional load you put on yourself and you know we're expats, right, so I don't have this family connection. You know it's me and him and friends, of course, but we're friends. In a place where you have to work a lot, everybody is busy, right, so you lean a lot on each other and emotionally you need that support and it's not always there the way you want it. Yeah, you just have to be aware of it and build your, your system, your social, your network. So you are not alone.

Julia Neale:

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Mona:

So I was advised to do the usual pelvic thing exercises. That was hard for me because I couldn't go to the classes, so I didn't do these, to be honest, and I also had to massage the scar regularly, regularly, with oil or with a cream, massage it so it doesn't. So it helps with the what is it called, you know, with the skin, kind of.

Julia Neale:

So it doesn't have adhesions.

Mona:

Yeah, so I did have to massage the scar regularly and make sure that it's all that's good. You have to do that, and I think everyone should do the after exercises gently, because yeah, eventually it helps.

Mona:

What about breastfeeding? Did you plan to breastfeed? How did that go? If you did a very uh pro breast is best person? I'm like nothing but breast milk and so, um, I breastfed all my daughters two years, um, and that was not a problem. C-section didn't impact my breast. Uh, it didn't really impact the milk at the beginning took a little bit of time to come, but that's just because of my body, it's just the way I am. All my pregnancies was like that. And, yeah, the trick for breastfeeding is to learn how to latch your baby on. The trick for breastfeeding is to learn how to latch your baby on Right. So watch as many videos as you can and don't stress. And there are breastfeeding experts.

Mona:

I remember this breastfeeding expert, frau Weisskopf, with hints, because, you know, my nipple was being being like eaten away by this little creature, like why? And my parents are, you know, processed milk generation. I was like why are you doing this? Processed milk is good. They were on me from the outside, this pressure, so I called this person, or the hospital gave me her number to be. So I called her and she came to the house with her flip chart and gave my parents a lesson on like she doesn't need to do milk because you know, and weighed my hind first and then weighed her after, she showed me exactly how to latch her on. I must admit her support for breastfeeding was much better than the hospital with Hind. To be honest, in the hospital that wasn't very helpful. They didn't help me a lot. But the house midwife, the neighborhood and that helped when she came because she could show me positions, how I can do it while lying down or on my back. I never knew that and I could actually feel the difference. When Hind latched on, I could actually feel the difference and Hind was just, she took it easy, she would drink for five minutes and then sleep. So she was just a constant breastfeeder. The whole time I had her on my breast and my parents were like that's not normal, you have to do it. And then every three hours, and I'm like no, that is normal. And the expert said it's normal, this is just how she eats. She eats on demand and that's what she needs. She needs a nap, little snack, nap. I'm going to give her that because I have nothing else to do With Farah.

Mona:

She was the opposite, my middle child. She would latch onto the breast, drink one breast and fall asleep, and then the other one is like hurting. It's like you have to drink the other one too. You can't just have one. So, yeah, I loved it. The breastfeeding experience. I didn't like pumping, to be honest, because you know, I just never had enough milk pump. They took out more. Yeah, but it's helpful to do it when you have to be somewhere else, yeah. So if you're pumping, get those heavy metal heavy machines that do both boobs at the same time. Don't do the hand pump. Don't do that to yourself.

Julia Neale:

Hand pump has a time and a place.

Mona:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the story.

Julia Neale:

Awesome, mona, I'm going to ask you our final question. I have so enjoyed listening to the stories of your girls. It's amazing.

Mona:

I'd love to hear your most brilliant moment in your birth experiences, so one that's really just stand out and you're like, yeah, that was it, it's an interesting thing to think about, because now I'm going through the birth in a, you know, like a little film in my head to catch that moment, right of all of my births and, um, and it's hard to catch one, to be honest one specific moment.

Mona:

I don't know if that counts as one of the birth moments, but it is a moment where in each or is it a time where I felt most serene, and it was not during the birth, because that's kind of time in motion, right, and it's like it's like it's like you're going to want to catch the train or the airplane, that time when you're actually in labor or getting the operation, that time when you're actually in labor or getting the operation, but that moment where everybody's gone and your child is with you in the room after the operation, and that moment with every birth, when I have my baby in my hand and they're asleep or they're breastfeeding and there's no one else in the room, and it's like that moment where we meet each other.

Mona:

It feels like it's the first time we've met each other, because now it's like you've reached your destination, right, so you're not in motion anymore, so your child is there, you're like hello, we've made it, and so for me, that's the most moment I cherish, and I've done, I've remembered that for all three births. So that's a special moment. In the hospital, nobody's around, your family's not around, it's just you and your new little life.

Christine Bliven:

I love that. That's so nice, because sometimes that moment of meeting it does feel like it's the first moment you see them, but often it isn't. Often it's like you say, when everyone else has quieted, everything's gone and and uh, it's just you two. And and you're like, hey, who are you?

Mona:

Yeah, the baby's settled in your hand and I think they're now like, okay, I get it, I'm out yeah for them too.

Christine Bliven:

Yeah, not just for you that things have settled down, but for them the bright lights and the measuring and this and that.

Mona:

It makes you want to have another one, but no.

Christine Bliven:

No more.

Mona:

I would have had six, but in a different life, all c-sections. If I can too, you get to have four maybe five too.

Christine Bliven:

Throw a couple twins in there and you're good to go.

Julia Neale:

You're good yeah oh, mona, this has been so lovely yes, thank you.

Mona:

It's good to talk about such experience, yeah yeah, thank you so much, thank you so much for having me. Good luck with everything. Ladies, I really honor and respect what you guys are doing thanks, thank you so much.

Julia Neale:

You guys are doing Thanks. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow, so please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents-to-be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it, and be sure to follow us on social media at Swiss Birth Stories for even more tips, resources and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and birth stories too, so feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, swissbirthstoriescom, or tag us in your posts. No-transcript.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Julia Neale

Host
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Christine Bliven

Co-host